What does Peter mean by "the fate that was planned for them"

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
1 Peter 2:8-9
[8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
[9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Amazing silence from "Christians" on this subject. It's almost as if no one dares to address the elephant in the room.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Still no responses from "Christians." This is fascinating.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
1 Peter 2:8-9
[8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
[9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

Amazing silence from "Christians" on this subject. It's almost as if no one dares to address the elephant in the room.

Still no responses from "Christians." This is fascinating.

I think it means/you mean I'm...

giphy.gif


 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Strav, you are the king of the red herrings. Excellent post. However, this is the "Ask a Christian" forum...[emoji6]
 

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Actually, I think Strav summed it up nicely. Peter, suggesting that those who don't obey God's word (such as you - Menno - suggested in another thread may apply to Strav), will "meet the fate that was planned (predestined?) for them" (e.g. "Heretic Toast"). Does that sum up Peter's view? Or do you have a different take?

Disclaimer - My use of the word 'predestined' does not imply an endorsement on my part of a Calvinist view of predestination, but was offered here to clarify the OP's take on the passage.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Actually, I think Strav summed it up nicely. Peter, suggesting that those who don't obey God's word (such as you - Menno - suggested in another thread may apply to Strav), will "meet the fate that was planned (predestined?) for them" (e.g. "Heretic Toast"). Does that sum up Peter's view? Or do you have a different take?

Disclaimer - My use of the word 'predestined' does not imply an endorsement on my part of a Calvinist view of predestination, but was offered here to clarify the OP's take on the passage.

What does the text say?
1) "He is the stone that makes people stumble."
Who is "He"? The answer is shown in the preceding verse. Jesus is the cornerstone.
2) "He is the rock (Jesus told Peter, when Peter was given his name, that Jesus was THE ROCK, but Peter was a little rock Jesus would use to build His church.) that makes them fall."
Who is "them?"Verse 7 tells us. The ones who reject Jesus are the ones which Jesus makes them fall.
3) "They stumble (not fall) because they do not obey God’s word."
Notice there is no comment about denominational tradition. They may obey tradition, but they don't obey what God says.
4) "They meet the fate that was planned for them."
Jesus makes them stumble. Jesus makes them fall. Because they do not obey God.
Thus..."they meet the fate that was planned for them."
Question: Was the fate planned before they stumbled and fell due to obedience?
Question: Can a human being be responsible for not obeying God's word if God causes them to stumble and fall and thus meet their fate?

1 Peter 2:8-9

[8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.

[9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
Notice the contrast in verse 9.
"But"
"You are not like that."
Who is Peter referring to? Some people want to make the "you" universal in Peter's writing, but here Peter tells us who the "you" is. He calls them "chosen people," "royal priests," "a holy nation," "God's very own possession."
"As a result"
A result of what? Answer: Being chosen.
"You can show others the goodness of God."
We can show them. We cannot prevent them from stumbling or falling and meeting their fate.
"For He called you out of the darkness into His wonderful light."
Again, the you is referring to the chosen. The chosen were in darkness, but God called the chosen into His "wonderful" light. It's not just light. It's WONDERFUL light.
This is what I observe.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
I take two things from the lack of answers provided by "Chistians" at the CH.
1) They agree with the statement that certain people meet a fate that was planned for them, which is that they will stumble and fall due to unbelief. They also agree that others are chosen to be priests, to be a nation and to live in the light.
2) They don't agree with #1, but they cannot come up with anything to refute God's word so they stay silent.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
I take two things from the lack of answers provided by "Chistians" at the CH.
1) They agree with the statement that certain people meet a fate that was planned for them, which is that they will stumble and fall due to unbelief. They also agree that others are chosen to be priests, to be a nation and to live in the light.
2) They don't agree with #1, but they cannot come up with anything to refute God's word so they stay silent.

:)

If the first summary you have provided is true, then I'm curious how you reconcile it with this verse, also from a Petrine epistle:

2Peter3:9(KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There is a clear contradiction here between what "the Lord wants" and what "the Lord plans" which is the emphasis of your point (and which is also an emphasis of Saul/Paul in some of his teachings)


I'm in camp #2, I don't agree with it, and I also do not accept the Petrine epistles (1st and 2nd Peter) - for the simple reason I don't believe they were written by him.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
:)

If the first summary you have provided is true, then I'm curious how you reconcile it with this verse, also from a Petrine epistle:

2Peter3:9(KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There is a clear contradiction here between what "the Lord wants" and what "the Lord plans" which is the emphasis of your point (and which is also an emphasis of Saul/Paul in some of his teachings)


I'm in camp #2, I don't agree with it, and I also do not accept the Petrine epistles (1st and 2nd Peter) - for the simple reason I don't believe they were written by him.

I have already addressed 2 Peter 3:9 elsewhere. In short, not one of the chosen will ever perish because God is not willing for them to perish. If you acknowledge to whom Peter is writing then the oft abused verse you quote is reconciled. Look at the context around 2 Peter 3 and it becomes very obvious that Peter is not addressing mankind universal.
As to what you accept or don't accept...that is irrelevant to me.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
:)



2Peter3:9(KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I have already addressed 2 Peter 3:9 elsewhere. In short, not one of the chosen will ever perish because God is not willing for them to perish. If you acknowledge to whom Peter is writing then the oft abused verse you quote is reconciled. Look at the context around 2 Peter 3 and it becomes very obvious that Peter is not addressing mankind universal.

So God makes them repent as per the verse? LOL. What a micromanaging god you have. According to Saul/Paul he makes them all sinners, and according to your interpretation here, he makes some of them come to repentance. It's not a stretch to say these beliefs completely absolve any men from any kind of choice or responsibility.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
So God makes them repent as per the verse? LOL. What a micromanaging god you have. According to Saul/Paul he makes them all sinners, and according to your interpretation here, he makes some of them come to repentance. It's not a stretch to say these beliefs completely absolve any men from any kind of choice or responsibility.
To those who are perishing the gospel is foolishness, Strav.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
To those who are perishing the gospel is foolishness, Strav.

Way to side step dude, ROFL.

You do realize, Mr Alithis, that that particular phrase could be used to back up any doctrinal position, and not just the one you are promoting? Or maybe you don't, lol.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
1 Peter 2:8-9
[8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
[9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
1 Thessalonians 3:3
That no one would be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed for this.

Meaning appointed to afflictions, God has allotted that portion to His people. Afflictions associated with believers in Christ.

Same with the verse from the op. The Jews were appointed that lot according to prophesy because of the stumbling block of Christ that they could not overcome. Obviously that didn't apply to all Jews but it did/does apply to unbelievers.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Way to side step dude, ROFL.

You do realize, Mr Alithis, that that particular phrase could be used to back up any doctrinal position, and not just the one you are promoting? Or maybe you don't, lol.
Again, irrelevant opinion on your part.
What do you think Peter means in the passage I quoted?
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
1 Thessalonians 3:3
That no one would be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed for this.

Meaning appointed to afflictions, God has allotted that portion to His people. Afflictions associated with believers in Christ.

Same with the verse from the op. The Jews were appointed that lot according to prophesy because of the stumbling block of Christ that they could not overcome. Obviously that didn't apply to all Jews but it did/does apply to unbelievers.
I know all too well about God ordaining both good and bad. He weaves dark threads as well as bright threads for our good and His glory.
"I have learned to kiss the wave that tosses me onto the Rock of Ages." ~ CH Spurgeon
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
1 Peter 2:8-9
[8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
[9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

Again, irrelevant opinion on your part.
What do you think Peter means in the passage I quoted?

Well, taken at face value, and dismissing 2Peter 3:9 and also John 3:16 - and in line with what Saul/Paul preaches in places like Romans 9 (specifically Romans 9:19-20(KJV) and the verses surrounding it), then it means what it says. Herein lies the problem, one must dismiss 2Peter3:9 (or interpret it as you have) and also interpret John 3:16 to not mean what they say, but instead look at it through the lens of ultimate predestination where man has 0 say in the matter of his actions, his good deeds, his bad, or his repentance. For it is all God's will, according to this doctrine.

If this is to be believed, I mean REALLY believed, then the believer of this verse and Saul/Paul's teaching in Romans 9 should leave every one who thus believes in the following position, and that is - If you blame another for perishing, you are casting Judgement on God, who has willed it so.

I do not accept either the Petrine epistles, nor Saul/Paul so ultimate predestination and wondering if God is going to "mold me" into an object of wrath per His will doesn't even come up. The God I believe in shows no favoritism and DOES give man choice.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
I know all too well about God ordaining both good and bad. He weaves dark threads as well as bright threads for our good and His glory.
"I have learned to kiss the wave that tosses me onto the Rock of Ages." ~ CH Spurgeon
God ordained suffering thru a long painful death of self to become in His image and have dominion which is the meaning of priest and king. However there is neither w/o Christ as High Priest and King of Kings in ones life.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
Well, taken at face value, and dismissing 2Peter 3:9 and also John 3:16 - and in line with what Saul/Paul preaches in places like Romans 9 (specifically Romans 9:19-20(KJV) and the verses surrounding it), then it means what it says. Herein lies the problem, one must dismiss 2Peter3:9 (or interpret it as you have) and also interpret John 3:16 to not mean what they say, but instead look at it through the lens of ultimate predestination where man has 0 say in the matter of his actions, his good deeds, his bad, or his repentance. For it is all God's will, according to this doctrine.

If this is to be believed, I mean REALLY believed, then the believer of this verse and Saul/Paul's teaching in Romans 9 should leave every one who thus believes in the following position, and that is - If you blame another for perishing, you are casting Judgement on God, who has willed it so.

I do not accept either the Petrine epistles, nor Saul/Paul so ultimate predestination and wondering if God is going to "mold me" into an object of wrath per His will doesn't even come up. The God I believe in shows no favoritism and DOES give man choice.
As a Deist, the God you believe in has left the building.
I find it surprising that you care about the Bible at all, given your position that God never has engaged with His creation after setting it in motion.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
God ordained suffering thru a long painful death of self to become in His image and have dominion which is the meaning of priest and king. However there is neither w/o Christ as High Priest and King of Kings in ones life.
I'm sorry, I don't follow your train of thought in your post.
 
Top Bottom