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    Christian Theology - Thread: Homily on baptism.

    1. #21
      Josiah's Avatar
      Josiah is offline Bronze Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Excellent. I stand corrected by scripture. I misstated and you have properly corrected. @Josiah and others, take note. If you wish to convince me that I am wrong, provide scripture. I will gladly concede when it is pointed out.
      You chose to overlook and ignore what apollard said about the verses...

      "The work of the Holy Spirit seems ongoing and diverse in the salvation of a believer. It does not seem directly linked to either "before" or "after" water baptism. It also seems appropriate to speak of a deeper relationship after 'believing' that the leading before 'believing'. At least that is what I take away from these and other verses. Baptism does not invoke salvation, the Holy Spirit does. However, honesty requires us to admit that the Holy Spirit can use baptism to accomplish His work (and the Holy Spirit can accomplish His work without it)."


      Thus, there goes your long list of Anabaptist denials, restrictions, prohibitions and prerequesites. Our friend does NOT indicate that these verse teach that Baptism is meaningless, that Baptism can't accomplish anything, that Scripture DEMANDS that FIRST one attains the age of X before we can "go.... baptize....teach...." (anti-paedobaptism), it does NOT say that FIRST one must choose Jesus as their personal Savior and give adequate public proof of that (the credobaptist folks)... He notes that it is NOT stated in Scripture that believing must come BEFORE baptism. Did you notice that? He's disagreeing with you.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    2. #22
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      Thus, there goes your long list of Anabaptist denials, restrictions, prohibitions and prerequesites. Our friend does NOT indicate that these verse teach that Baptism is meaningless, that Baptism can't accomplish anything, that Scripture DEMANDS that FIRST one attains the age of X before we can "go.... baptize....teach...." (anti-paedobaptism), it does NOT say that FIRST one must choose Jesus as their personal Savior and give adequate public proof of that (the credobaptist folks)... He notes that it is NOT stated in Scripture that believing must come BEFORE baptism. Did you notice that? He's disagreeing with you.
      There is already a topic for the credobaptism/padeobaptism discussion, and "Homily on baptism" is not it.
      For the record, I do not embrace paedobaptism, I am a credobaptist (belief should come before baptism ... it is the work of the Holy Spirit that is not restricted by any human effort like water baptism).

    3. Likes psalms 91 liked this post
    4. #23
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      You chose to overlook and ignore what apollard said about the verses...

      "The work of the Holy Spirit seems ongoing and diverse in the salvation of a believer. It does not seem directly linked to either "before" or "after" water baptism. It also seems appropriate to speak of a deeper relationship after 'believing' that the leading before 'believing'. At least that is what I take away from these and other verses. Baptism does not invoke salvation, the Holy Spirit does. However, honesty requires us to admit that the Holy Spirit can use baptism to accomplish His work (and the Holy Spirit can accomplish His work without it)."


      Thus, there goes your long list of Anabaptist denials, restrictions, prohibitions and prerequesites. Our friend does NOT indicate that these verse teach that Baptism is meaningless, that Baptism can't accomplish anything, that Scripture DEMANDS that FIRST one attains the age of X before we can "go.... baptize....teach...." (anti-paedobaptism), it does NOT say that FIRST one must choose Jesus as their personal Savior and give adequate public proof of that (the credobaptist folks)... He notes that it is NOT stated in Scripture that believing must come BEFORE baptism. Did you notice that? He's disagreeing with you.
      Josiah, the Holy Spirit can use anything to bring a person to adoption. With Saul it was a bright light on the road to Damascus. Perhaps another gets shot in a battle. Or perhaps watching a sunset while on a canoe trip in the BWCA.
      So, of course the Holy Spirit "could" save during the dunking process, but how would anyone know? What do you do when you recognized you put the cart before the horse and the Spirit did nothing during the ceremonial dunk?
      Do you have any biblical passage where an infant received the ceremonial dunk and then people waited until the age of X for the ever impressive "confirmation classes and graduation ceremony"?
      Josiah, your denomination creates a series of rules and performance requirements as the means by which a person is declared saved at the age of X. Grace is non-existent in your denomination and it's replaced with "confirmation classes and graduation ceremony." After that the majority of your crew leave the church and never show up except for Christmas and Easter. Are you proud of the vast majority who are void of any spiritual relationship with God while trusting in their infant baptism and confirmation classes?
      I grow tired of your incapacity to honestly evaluate your flawed denominational dogma.

    5. #24
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      There is already a topic for the credobaptism/padeobaptism discussion, and "Homily on baptism" is not it.
      For the record, I do not embrace paedobaptism, I am a credobaptist (belief should come before baptism ... it is the work of the Holy Spirit that is not restricted by any human effort like water baptism).
      You are right atpollard - Homily on Baptism is not about the battle between credo & paedo baptism theologies.

      It does not matter what theology one holds about the amount of water used in baptism and the candidate's age when baptised because the homily on baptism is not about those things it is about what baptism is and what God (the Holy Spirit) does in baptism.
      Last edited by MoreCoffee; 02-14-2018 at 05:00 PM.

    6. Likes atpollard, Confessional Lutheran liked this post

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