Homily on baptism.

MoreCoffee · Feb 13, 2018

The priest from my parish moved recently to another parish about 40 Km away. He and I are good friends so I decided to visit him in his new parish. It was a good visit. I attended mass and there were two baptisms. He preached a homily on baptism rather than a homily on the gospel reading of the day - the reading was the healing of a leper taken from Mark 1:40-45.

The homily on baptism made the following salient points

Baptism is with water - water has no special or magical power is it just water but as water it carries a lot of meaning for human life
Water gives life to earthly creatures who depend on it - This is similar to the way the Holy Spirit gives and sustains human spiritual life and also gives new life in Christ so water is a fitting element for use in baptism
Water washes earthly grime and dirt away - this too is similar to the way that the Holy Spirit washes away sins by applying the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ to the souls of the faithful washing away their sins entirely
Water sustains life for earthly creatures - this is also similar to the way that the Holy Spirit enters the soul of the baptised person sustaining them in the Life of Christ

Jesus spoke of the Water of Life and it is no accident that this water that he mentions wells up in the souls of the faithful to sustain eternal life - so it is with the Holy Spirit in the baptised

In brief baptism regenerates (causes one to be "born from above"/"born again"), it washes away sins, it sustains the new life in Christ.

psalms 91 · Feb 13, 2018

NewCreation435 · Feb 13, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
The priest from my parish moved recently to another parish about 40 Km away. He and I are good friends so I decided to visit him in his new parish. It was a good visit. I attended mass and there were two baptisms. He preached a homily on baptism rather than a homily on the gospel reading of the day - the reading was the healing of a leper taken from Mark 1:40-45.

The homily on baptism made the following salient points

Baptism is with water - water has no special or magical power is it just water but as water it carries a lot of meaning for human life

Water gives life to earthly creatures who depend on it - This is similar to the way the Holy Spirit gives and sustains human spiritual life and also gives new life in Christ so water is a fitting element for use in baptism

Water washes earthly grime and dirt away - this too is similar to the way that the Holy Spirit washes away sins by applying the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ to the souls of the faithful washing away their sins entirely

Water sustains life for earthly creatures - this is also similar to the way that the Holy Spirit enters the soul of the baptised person sustaining them in the Life of Christ

Jesus spoke of the Water of Life and it is no accident that this water that he mentions wells up in the souls of the faithful to sustain eternal life - so it is with the Holy Spirit in the baptised

In brief baptism regenerates (causes one to be "born from above"/"born again"), it washes away sins, it sustains the new life in Christ.

Point I was that the water has no magical powers, but then you end with saying that brief baptism regenerates, it washes away sins, it sustains the new life in Christ. That sounds like a contradiction to me.

Albion · Feb 13, 2018

Why should this be called magic if the Lord commissioned his Apostles to do it and it has a spiritual effect? That's not magic.

MennoSota · Feb 13, 2018

MC wrote:

Holy Spirit enters the soul of the baptised person sustaining them in the Life of Christ

That statement implies that baptism invokes salvation. That would be a false statement.
The Holy Spirit must already have entered the person via God's adoption. Upon adoption a person may then be baptized.
There seems to be a concerted effort from some to put the cart before the horse.

MennoSota · Feb 13, 2018

Albion said:
Why should this be called magic if the Lord commissioned his Apostles to do it and it has a spiritual effect? That's not magic.

It has no spiritual effect.
Jesus certainly commissioned the disciples to go. Going is imperative. While going the disciples are to:
1) Make disciples in every nation
2) Baptize those disciples in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
3) Teach them to observe all that Jesus commanded them.
The spiritual effect took place when God adopted us and immersed us in Christ via the Holy Spirit. The ceremony of water immersion is a testimony to all witnesses that God has adopted them. It symbolizes that the person is no longer a citizen of this world in rebellion to God, but is instead a citizen of the Kingdom of God as a child of the King.

Josiah · Feb 13, 2018

jsimms435 said:
Point I was that the water has no magical powers, but then you end with saying that brief baptism regenerates, it washes away sins, it sustains the new life in Christ. That sounds like a contradiction to me.

Jesus used a spit ball to give a man the miracle of sight. Did the spit ball have magical powers? Or can even spit balls be used by God for amazing miracles?

Some "Evangelicals" speak much of the life-giving, miracle-working power of Scripture. But Scripture typically is blobs of ink on a white page.... But can God use ink blobs to perform the miracle of life?

- Josiah

ImaginaryDay2 · Feb 13, 2018

jsimms435 said:
Point I was that the water has no magical powers, but then you end with saying that brief baptism regenerates, it washes away sins, it sustains the new life in Christ. That sounds like a contradiction to me.

Water itself isn't the active 'agent' here, so what was said is correct. The Holy Spirit is the active agent that does the regenerating, washing, and sustaining.

MennoSota · Feb 13, 2018

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Water itself isn't the active 'agent' here, so what was said is correct. The Holy Spirit is the active agent that does the regenerating, washing, and sustaining.

...before baptism ever takes place. That means a person can be adopted by God and yet not be baptized.

MoreCoffee · Feb 13, 2018

jsimms435 said:
Point I was that the water has no magical powers, but then you end with saying that brief baptism regenerates, it washes away sins, it sustains the new life in Christ. That sounds like a contradiction to me.

Josiah and ImaginaryDay2 both gave good answers to your post. The water does not do anything except act as the means by which the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of baptism. It is the Holy Spirit who effects the work of baptism. He baptises the faithful, he washes away their sins in the precious blood of Jesus Christ, he gives new life and causes the faithful to be born from above, and he enters the faithful to give eternal life and sustain it. Eternal life is long hand for Christ since it is Christ's life that the faithful receive and we call it eternal life because he is eternal and they are united to him in his life for as long as they are in him.

PS: I wanted to give a like to Albion, Josiah, and ImaginaryDay2's posts but I have no like button to click. So please take this note as the equivalent of a like for each of those posts to their posters.

Confessional Lutheran · Feb 13, 2018

Josiah said:
Jesus used a spit ball to give a man the miracle of sight. Did the spit ball have magical powers? Or can even spit balls be used by God for amazing miracles?

Some "Evangelicals" speak much of the life-giving, miracle-working power of Scripture. But Scripture typically is blobs of ink on a white page.... But can God use ink blobs to perform the miracle of life?

- Josiah

Luther himself said it best in his Small Catechism:

IV. The Sacrament of Holy Baptism

As the head of the family should teach it in a simple way to his household. First.
What is Baptism?--Answer.
Baptism is not simple water only, but it is the water comprehended in God's command and connected with God's Word.
Which is that word of God?--Answer.
Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Matthew: Go ye into all the world and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Secondly.
What does Baptism give or profit?--Answer.
It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.
Which are such words and promises of God? Answer.
Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Mark: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#baptism

MennoSota · Feb 13, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
The water does not do anything except act as the means by which the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of baptism.

What does this even mean?
What miracle happens in baptism?
Or...are you not talking about water baptism, but instead the baptism of the Spirit, which happens at the moment of adoption?

MennoSota · Feb 13, 2018

Confessional Lutheran said:
Luther himself said it best in his Small Catechism:

IV. The Sacrament of Holy Baptism

As the head of the family should teach it in a simple way to his household. First.
What is Baptism?--Answer.
Baptism is not simple water only, but it is the water comprehended in God's command and connected with God's Word.
Which is that word of God?--Answer.
Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Matthew: Go ye into all the world and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Secondly.
What does Baptism give or profit?--Answer.
It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.
Which are such words and promises of God? Answer.
Christ, our Lord, says in the last chapter of Mark: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#baptism

Luther got this wrong. His failure to comprehend his error in this issue has been a cause of many to falsely think they were adopted when God actually never knew them.

Lamb · Feb 14, 2018

MennoSota said:
...before baptism ever takes place. That means a person can be adopted by God and yet not be baptized.

Of course. Because the Word of God is a means that God uses to give faith.

MennoSota · Feb 14, 2018

Lämmchen said:
Of course. Because the Word of God is a means that God uses to give faith.

Which is why baptism is a symbolic ceremony testifying that God has already given that person faith.
Now...how can you know that the infant has already been given faith so that their adoption is secured?
Infant baptism cannot be regenerative since the infant may likely not have yet been adopted and may never be adopted.

atpollard · Feb 14, 2018

MennoSota said:
MC wrote:

That statement implies that baptism invokes salvation. That would be a false statement.
The Holy Spirit must already have entered the person via God's adoption. Upon adoption a person may then be baptized.
There seems to be a concerted effort from some to put the cart before the horse.

MennoSota said:
...before baptism ever takes place. That means a person can be adopted by God and yet not be baptized.

Mark 1:8 NASB “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:38 NASB Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 NASB “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”
Ephesians 1:13 NASB In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation— having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Titus 3:5 NASB He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

The work of the Holy Spirit seems ongoing and diverse in the salvation of a believer. It does not seem directly linked to either "before" or "after" water baptism. It also seems appropriate to speak of a deeper relationship after 'believing' that the leading before 'believing'. At least that is what I take away from these and other verses.

So you are correct that baptism does not invoke salvation, the Holy Spirit does. However, honesty requires us to admit that the Holy Spirit can use baptism to accomplish His work (and the Holy Spirit can accomplish His work without it).

Lamb · Feb 14, 2018

MennoSota said:
Which is why baptism is a symbolic ceremony testifying that God has already given that person faith.
Now...how can you know that the infant has already been given faith so that their adoption is secured?
Infant baptism cannot be regenerative since the infant may likely not have yet been adopted and may never be adopted.

God's word is with the waters in baptism. That's the part you keep missing.

atpollard · Feb 14, 2018

Lämmchen said:
God's word is with the waters in baptism. That's the part you keep missing.

"God's word is with the waters in baptism" does sound a little like 'mysticism'. The statement could really use some clarification using more common language.

God's written word, holy scripture, is somehow mixed with the water?
God's spoken word is somehow mixed with the water?
Jesus Christ (the word made flesh) is somehow mixed with the water?

How does that work?
What does that mean?
On what do you base that?

I am not attacking the belief, I am just moderately confused by the meaning of the words.
[I suspect that the word 'mystery' is about to come up.]

Andrew · Feb 14, 2018

MennoSota said:
MC wrote:

That statement implies that baptism invokes salvation. That would be a false statement.
The Holy Spirit must already have entered the person via God's adoption. Upon adoption a person may then be baptized.
There seems to be a concerted effort from some to put the cart before the horse.

Not true, some were baptised and then asked if they received the Holy Spirit and they said that they didn't know that there was one

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

MennoSota · Feb 14, 2018

atpollard said:
Mark 1:8 NASB “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:38 NASB Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 NASB “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”
Ephesians 1:13 NASB In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation— having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Titus 3:5 NASB He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

The work of the Holy Spirit seems ongoing and diverse in the salvation of a believer. It does not seem directly linked to either "before" or "after" water baptism. It also seems appropriate to speak of a deeper relationship after 'believing' that the leading before 'believing'. At least that is what I take away from these and other verses.

So you are correct that baptism does not invoke salvation, the Holy Spirit does. However, honesty requires us to admit that the Holy Spirit can use baptism to accomplish His work (and the Holy Spirit can accomplish His work without it).

Excellent. I stand corrected by scripture. I misstated and you have properly corrected. [MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] and others, take note. If you wish to convince me that I am wrong, provide scripture. I will gladly concede when it is pointed out.

Homily on baptism.

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