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    1. #1
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Credobaptists - What about those with disabilities and baptism?

      Credobaptists believe in a believers baptism and are against infants being baptized. What about the people with severe disabilities? They never receive baptism that Jesus told the disciples to go out and baptize all nations?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #2
      ImaginaryDay2's Avatar
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      As devil's advocate, I'd say that God recognizes their inability to make a 'choice'. In that state, he freely accepts them as they are and extends his grace to them.
      But then it reminds me of the case of Terry Schiavo where there were Pastors protesting about not being able to bring her communion in the hospital. By all accounts she was brain dead. Why try to offer something "symbolic" to one who cannot understand anyway?
      I Hope This HelpsTM

    3. #3
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Credobaptists believe in a believers baptism and are against infants being baptized. What about the people with severe disabilities? They never receive baptism that Jesus told the disciples to go out and baptize all nations?
      Says who?

    4. #4
      Josiah's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Credobaptists believe in a believers baptism and are against infants being baptized. What about the people with severe disabilities? They never receive baptism that Jesus told the disciples to go out and baptize all nations?

      Well, maybe Jesus MEANT to say, "Go and baptize and teach but NOT those under the age of X (and I won't tell you what age that is) and NOT those with an IQ under X (and I won't tell you what IQ that is) and NOT those who have not yet repented of their sins, chose Me, said the Sinners Prayer, and given adequate witness of their having chosen Me."
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    5. #5
      Josiah's Avatar
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      I think it's possible to say we cannot DOGMATICALLY state that obedience to His Great Commission ("Go.... Baptize.... Teach.....") means that ALWAYS the receiver will gain every divine blessing (including justification/faith/life). But I find it silly to argue THEREFORE we should withhold it wherever Jesus SHOULD have said to do so (but didn't).

      I just can't find all these enormous Divine limitations and prohibitations and all the shouts about what God CANNOT do .... all the "BUT NOT.... those under X, those under the IQ of X, those who have not attained the educational level of X, those who have not chanted the Sinner's Prayer." I just don't see the verses that say, "God CANNOT bless X." "God is rendered impotent by X."

      I CAN understand those who say, "We do this - even though we aren't sure anything will result." I have a much, much harder time with those who insist, "We won't do this because God is impotent to bless the recipient." I have a problem too with those - posting on the internet - shouting "We can't do anything unless we see it specifically practiced in the examples of the Bible."

      And ironically, those filled with all these prohibitions, all these limitations, all these things God CANNOT do - often come from people who SAY much about the Soverignty of God and that God does whatever He chooses to. I find people who pride themselves on being monergist who turn 180 degrees on ONE topic: Baptism.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    6. #6
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Acts 2:38 NASB Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

      Acts 10:43-47 NASB
      43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
      44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

      So what DOES the Bible say about baptism?

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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      Acts 2:38 NASB Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

      1. As we all know, the koine Greek word "kai" (and) is the most general connective word there is, it simply and only connects things, it by no means whatsoever mandates or remotely implies order. Not in Greek (nor in English). "I got up this morning and visited the bathroom and made the coffee and pet the bunny and made some toast." That's all 100% true and accurate. The grammar is 100% right. But I didn't do them in that order.

      2. You evidently looked around to find an ENGLISH translation that added a comma. It's not in the original.



      So what DOES the Bible say about baptism?

      Nothing about how there is ONE Baptism and it's dry as a desert, with NO water at all, just the "POURING" (baptism) of the Holy Spirit.

      Nothing about "Go.... Baptize..... Teach.... but thou art forbidden to do so to any under the age of X (and you have to guess what age that is)."

      Nothing about "Go.... Baptize.... Teach.... but ONLY if said receiver hath FIRST chosen Jesus as their Savior, correctly chanted the Sinner's Prayer and given adequate public testimony of their choice in this matter."

      Nothing about "Go.... Baptize.... Teach.... but the baptism part is a total waste of time and water because it can't do nothing (not even wash them cuz it's dry and void of water)."

      Oh, we do have this one: "Baptism now saves you" but I know how Anabaptists spin that 180 degrees, no need to repeat that.



      - Josiah
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    9. #8
      Lämmchen's Avatar
      Lämmchen is offline God's Lil Lamb
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      Is God's word so ineffective in working faith that the severely disabled are limited from receiving baptism because they cannot make a profession of faith? How does that coincide with Jesus telling disciples to baptize all nations?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    10. #9
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Is God's word so ineffective in working faith that the severely disabled are limited from receiving baptism because they cannot make a profession of faith? How does that coincide with Jesus telling disciples to baptize all nations?
      You know the disciples that Jesus commanded that to did not baptized ALL nations. There were many nations that had not heard the gospel when the last disciple died. Not only that, but among the nations where they did baptize, like Ancient Greece, not every single person was baptized. I suspect that it has nothing to do with the command to baptize all nations.

      We are not saved by God’s written word, it is useful, but ultimately it is the Living Word of God that saves. There are no limits that I am aware of on God’s ability to save.

    11. #10
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      Acts 2:38 NASB Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

      Acts 10:43-47 NASB
      43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
      44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

      So what DOES the Bible say about baptism?
      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      1. As we all know, the koine Greek word "kai" (and) is the most general connective word there is, it simply and only connects things, it by no means whatsoever mandates or remotely implies order. Not in Greek (nor in English). "I got up this morning and visited the bathroom and made the coffee and pet the bunny and made some toast." That's all 100% true and accurate. The grammar is 100% right. But I didn't do them in that order.

      That’s all baptists ask ... that ‘baptized’ and ‘believe’ and ‘repent’ ALL happen together (in any order) just like Scripture requests.

      2. You evidently looked around to find an ENGLISH translation that added a comma. It's not in the original.

      Naw, NASB is my ‘go to’ translation because it is a bit closer to a literal word for word translation than some others. The comma makes no difference to MY point, which was what things scripture includes with baptism. (repent and believe)



      Nothing about how there is ONE Baptism and it's dry as a desert, with NO water at all, just the "POURING" (baptism) of the Holy Spirit.

      So are you saying there is no baptism of the Spirit?

      Nothing about "Go.... Baptize..... Teach.... but thou art forbidden to do so to any under the age of X (and you have to guess what age that is)."

      Good thing I don’t teach that. However scripture does say repent and believe and be baptized all go together, so I don’t tell people to go and do one without the other.

      Nothing about "Go.... Baptize.... Teach.... but ONLY if said receiver hath FIRST chosen Jesus as their Savior, correctly chanted the Sinner's Prayer and given adequate public testimony of their choice in this matter."

      Then it is a good thing I don’t teach that either.

      Nothing about "Go.... Baptize.... Teach.... but the baptism part is a total waste of time and water because it can't do nothing (not even wash them cuz it's dry and void of water)."

      Umm. Baptists like total immersion, remember. If you ever studied the Southern Baptist Faith and Message on Baptism, you would find they view it as anything but a waste of time. They just believe that God saves, with or without the water.

      Oh, we do have this one: "Baptism now saves you" but I know how Anabaptists spin that 180 degrees, no need to repeat that.

      Ok. If you ever want to talk about it with me, I’ll try to be polite. Just let me know.

      - Josiah
      Arthur

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