"Post-NT" doctrine literature

Andrew

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Thank you kindly.

Can I suggest a different one to read please?

And do keep in mind that anything in parenthesis is an addition( though it is said to be for understanding and clarity on any given matter, and is in many cases), it can be quite misleading.

peace friend, and I wish you the best in continuing to seek out the Truth.



19:24. Then a voice called her from the side of the slope by her (saying), ‘Do not grieve, your Lord has placed a rivulet on the side of the slope by you (and a chief of the nation has been born to you).


Plain reading no way shows or implies that the newly born Jesus was what was talking to her.
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That was a messenger who spoke that to her, she conceived and gave birth the same day to a talking baby

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Parallelism:_Talking_Baby_Jesus

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popsthebuilder

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19:29
So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"

19:30
Jesus said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.

19:31
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive

19:32
And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.

19:33
And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

I have the Truth my friend, it's the only Truth and it's the first and final Truth.



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I'm glad you have the Truth. Really.

But that doesn't mean the Christ of GOD couldn't speak as a young child. And a young child is not a newborn baby as you posited.

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Andrew

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I'm glad you have the Truth. Really.

But that doesn't mean the Christ of GOD couldn't speak as a young child. And a young child is not a newborn baby as you posited.

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She gave birth to him under a palm tree and he started talking to her about shaking the tree, id say he was pretty much a few seconds born lol muslims agree with that too, they actually believe it.

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Imalive

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And God uses the Kuran to get someone saved, cause Jesus made clay birds as a kid and let em live. Totally made up nonsense, but God can use a crooked stick to do a straight hit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKJwqsSlx0I
 

popsthebuilder

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She gave birth to him under a palm tree and he started talking to her about shaking the tree, id say he was pretty much a few seconds born lol muslims agree with that too, they actually believe it.

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I clearly showed you that the Spirit or Angel of the LORD that spoke to her was not the moments old Messiah.

Please reread it.

Could you please at least consider a different version?


Please do continue or reading the Bible too of course
6c3ed60670f9f84b903ebbbc6b10d495.jpg


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Andrew

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I clearly showed you that the Spirit or Angel of the LORD that spoke to her was not the moments old Messiah.

Please reread it.

Could you please at least consider a different version?


Please do continue or reading the Bible too of course
6c3ed60670f9f84b903ebbbc6b10d495.jpg


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No you are reading it wrong, that was the messenger/angel/ gabriel a few versus before like I said

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popsthebuilder

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No you are reading it wrong, that was the messenger/angel/ gabriel a few versus before like I said

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It wasn't the infant Christ

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Lamb

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Uhm.....what do you base your assertion on in reference to negative effect?

Do you condemn a whole people for the acts of the few?



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The other literature will never be God's Word.

I condemn no one but they condemn themselves for not believing in Jesus as the Christ who died for them for the forgiveness of their sins.
 

popsthebuilder

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The other literature will never be God's Word.

I condemn no one but they condemn themselves for not believing in Jesus as the Christ who died for them for the forgiveness of their sins.
Yet we are told what is salvific is that the CHRIST was/ is manifest in the flesh.

We are also told that those who aren't against Jesus are on His part.

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Lamb

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Yet we are told what is salvific is that the CHRIST was/ is manifest in the flesh.

We are also told that those who aren't against Jesus are on His part.

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Are you making the claim that they trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior for the forgiveness of their sins? I've never heard that one before because if that was a true statement they would be Christians and they aren't. Thus, they damn themselves for their rejection of the Savior.
 

Andrew

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It wasn't the infant Christ

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Ok well your still wrong but lets suppose you are right and my version of the Qur'an is wrong, thats a MIGHTY big difference and a severe one that I guess all MUSLIMS have gotten wrong too, congrats you are the only true Muslim on the planet, a ummm Christian Muslim...
The Quran "Jesus" is an antichrist character, it is not Jesus and the god they worship is a false god too. Jesus was not a muslim but thats what muslims believe, he is not the Son of God but a mere prophet, he did not die on the cross but god had an imposter die there instead... and you actually believe that they are saved because they worship... scratch that... praise Jesus as a prophet below Muhammad?

But yes the Qur'an baby Jesus spoke to mary as soon as she gave birth to him, the Quran says so and so do all muslims.

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Imalive

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Ok well your still wrong but lets suppose you are right and my version of the Qur'an is wrong, thats a MIGHTY big difference and a severe one that I guess all MUSLIMS have gotten wrong too, congrats you are the only true Muslim on the planet, a ummm Christian Muslim...
The Quran "Jesus" is an antichrist character, it is not Jesus and the god they worship is a false god too. Jesus was not a muslim but thats what muslims believe, he is not the Son of God but a mere prophet, he did not die on the cross but god had an imposter die there instead... and you actually believe that they are saved because they worship... scratch that... praise Jesus as a prophet below Muhammad?

But yes the Qur'an baby Jesus spoke to mary as soon as she gave birth to him, the Quran says so and so do all muslims.

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Yes but don't tell em that. They're easier to convert if they think Jesus is a good prophet of them.
 

ImaginaryDay2

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My ex once got a lot of books from Branham from a woman. He knew he was off, but still found it interesting and was not planning on throwing em out of the house.
So I did it for him LOL.
LOL my dad had a kaballah book which he never read. He never noticed that my mom threw it in the garbage bin.

Women - saving men from doing stupid stuff for centuries! :)
 

ImaginaryDay2

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Yet we are told what is salvific is that the CHRIST was/is manifest in the flesh.

Where are we told this? And what does "CHRIST" mean to a Muslim? From what I understand, the idea of god (allah) having a "son" is inconceivable.
 

Andrew

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Where are we told this? And what does "CHRIST" mean to a Muslim? From what I understand, the idea of god (allah) having a "son" is inconceivable.
Exactly, they don't recognise Christ as their Lord and Savior nor do they believe he took part of the ultimate sacrifice and fulfillment of OT prophesy as the Messiah.
It means nothing to a Muslim and they could care less about any salvation outside of submission to Allah the pagan moon god. lol see I am really bad at muslim conversion I would probably just make them angrier, I did however buy a book "questions muslims ask" hope it helps me... started reading some online and it seems worthy of a purchase.
 

tango

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Perhaps I will never come across any personally but I do come across them online and I love a good debate especially if my knowledge of their false teachings can help win them over on a more personal approach. Thanks

It doesn't hurt to know something of what other religions teach, if you're often around followers of those other religions. Aside from that, the more intricate details of what other religions teach are little more than academic curiosity. I agree with others that you need to be well grounded in Scripture before looking in detail at what other religions teach.

Be aware that when you're talking to someone of another faith you're not necessarily going to get very far by merely pointing out how what their faith teaches differs from what the Bible teaches. Unless someone accepts the Bible you might as well be quoting from Moby Dick. Even faiths that may notionally accept the Bible (I'm thinking primarily of Islam here) will have some form of defence mechanism to ward off teaching from the Bible they find unpalatable. I used to engage with Muslims frequently on another board and their standard line was typically that the OT got corrupted by men so God gave us the NT, and then the NT was corrupted by men so God gave us the Qu'ran. How a God sufficiently inept to prevent his word getting corrupted twice managed to work it out the third time was never made entirely clear.

Any faith that teaches that the Bible is good but their book is Bigger and Better, in whatever form of words that claim comes, will have a ready-made excuse for not accepting Scripture. It's been twisted, it's been corrupted, which is why God gave us this New, Bigger, Better book that they use and that, according to them, we should also be using. If you're in the US and dealing with Mormons that's going to be a tricky one, given a belief that Jesus left his disciples and then went to America to save the people there. They have an obvious "out" to explain why their book is more appropriate than the Bible.

Cults are even more tricky to deal with because it's more likely they won't even be given the resources that might be used to counter their faith's teachings. A classic example is the Jehovah's Witnesses and their "translation" of the opening of John's gospel that reads "the Word was with God and the Word was a God". It's a subtle change from orthodox versions but changes the very nature of Jesus Christ. I'm not a scholar of Greek, but from my understanding you can't get that out of the Greek without twisting pretty hard. I'll hazard a guess the JWs are not encouraged to compare their version to the original Greek.
 

tango

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Exactly, they don't recognise Christ as their Lord and Savior nor do they believe he took part of the ultimate sacrifice and fulfillment of OT prophesy as the Messiah.
It means nothing to a Muslim and they could care less about any salvation outside of submission to Allah the pagan moon god. lol see I am really bad at muslim conversion I would probably just make them angrier, I did however buy a book "questions muslims ask" hope it helps me... started reading some online and it seems worthy of a purchase.

In general I believe Muslims do acknowledge Jesus as being sent by God, but do not believe that Jesus is God, nor that he is the son of God. Many Muslims will refer to him as Prophet Jesus (or Isa) and frequently give him the honor suffix PBUH (peace be upon him). They believe Jesus was a prophet, the greatest prophet until Mohammed showed up.
 

tango

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Moving this to Speculative Theology given it's about discussion of other faiths.
 

Andrew

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It doesn't hurt to know something of what other religions teach, if you're often around followers of those other religions. Aside from that, the more intricate details of what other religions teach are little more than academic curiosity. I agree with others that you need to be well grounded in Scripture before looking in detail at what other religions teach.

Be aware that when you're talking to someone of another faith you're not necessarily going to get very far by merely pointing out how what their faith teaches differs from what the Bible teaches. Unless someone accepts the Bible you might as well be quoting from Moby Dick. Even faiths that may notionally accept the Bible (I'm thinking primarily of Islam here) will have some form of defence mechanism to ward off teaching from the Bible they find unpalatable. I used to engage with Muslims frequently on another board and their standard line was typically that the OT got corrupted by men so God gave us the NT, and then the NT was corrupted by men so God gave us the Qu'ran. How a God sufficiently inept to prevent his word getting corrupted twice managed to work it out the third time was never made entirely clear.

Any faith that teaches that the Bible is good but their book is Bigger and Better, in whatever form of words that claim comes, will have a ready-made excuse for not accepting Scripture. It's been twisted, it's been corrupted, which is why God gave us this New, Bigger, Better book that they use and that, according to them, we should also be using. If you're in the US and dealing with Mormons that's going to be a tricky one, given a belief that Jesus left his disciples and then went to America to save the people there. They have an obvious "out" to explain why their book is more appropriate than the Bible.

Cults are even more tricky to deal with because it's more likely they won't even be given the resources that might be used to counter their faith's teachings. A classic example is the Jehovah's Witnesses and their "translation" of the opening of John's gospel that reads "the Word was with God and the Word was a God". It's a subtle change from orthodox versions but changes the very nature of Jesus Christ. I'm not a scholar of Greek, but from my understanding you can't get that out of the Greek without twisting pretty hard. I'll hazard a guess the JWs are not encouraged to compare their version to the original Greek.
The book of mormon literally starts off by sayings it's better than the NT [emoji20]

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