• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrassed
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 2 of 2

    Ask a Pastor - Thread: Tough verse in Hebrews 6

    1. #1
      Ask a Pastor is offline New Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2017
      Posts
      8
      CH Cash
      51
      CH Challenge
      0
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      66
      Level
      2
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      75.83%
      Rep Power
      0

      Tough verse in Hebrews 6

      "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
      Hebrews 6:4-6

      Some see this verse as suggesting 'OSAS' (Once Saved Always Saved)
      In that is impossible for a man to be saved and fall away and be saved again (double redemption) but rather Gods 'forgiveness' of sin is the ultimate sanctification ...
      Others may see it as quite the opposite... 'to sin is to crucify the Son of Man afresh' and thus a strict and obedient continuum of 'Holy living' (whereby a consistent effort is needed to approach the remission 'of sin' unto repentance) is a must -lest you forsake the salvation in Christ (knowing what you now know) in continuing living in the sinful ways of the world.

      In what context with regard to its corresponding surrounding chapters and versus holds true the reader ?
      Thank you.

    2. #2
      Pastor Rickert's Avatar
      Pastor Rickert is offline Clergy
      65
      Married
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2018
      Posts
      6
      CH Cash
      158
      CH Challenge
      0
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      842
      Level
      10
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      14.23%
      Rep Power
      0

      Hebrews 6:4-6 and Election

      Quote Originally Posted by Ask a Pastor View Post
      "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
      Hebrews 6:4-6

      Some see this verse as suggesting 'OSAS' (Once Saved Always Saved)
      In that is impossible for a man to be saved and fall away and be saved again (double redemption) but rather Gods 'forgiveness' of sin is the ultimate sanctification ...
      Others may see it as quite the opposite... 'to sin is to crucify the Son of Man afresh' and thus a strict and obedient continuum of 'Holy living' (whereby a consistent effort is needed to approach the remission 'of sin' unto repentance) is a must -lest you forsake the salvation in Christ (knowing what you now know) in continuing living in the sinful ways of the world.

      In what context with regard to its corresponding surrounding chapters and versus holds true the reader ?
      Thank you.

      The Lord be with you

      One of the big reasons for the book of Hebrews is to strengthen the Church against falling away. If it was true that a person could not lose their faith, then that purpose is moot. You see, the Apostolic/Primitive Church was composed largely of converted Jews. As persecution increased, from Jewish and Roman leadership as well as from the average Roman citizen because the Christian Faith undercut social and economic practices, it was tempting for Jewish converts to look back to their pre-conversion days with nostalgic yearning. The Jewish Faith was protected by Roman law. The Jewish Faith had a central worship center (the Temple in Jerusalem). The Jewish Faith had an established liturgical system (circumcision, feasts and festivals, religious customs, etc.). The Jewish Faith has a well-developed support system for Jews not living close to the Temple (synagogues). The Jewish Faith had a fixed set of holy books (the New Testament wasn’t finished yet), and so on. This list doesn’t even consider family ties. Hebrews targets converted Jews especially, which is why it spends so much time interpreting the Old Testament in light of Jesus. There was a real danger of them falling away and certainly some had turned their back on Christ and his Church. The writer clearly did not trust in a “once saved always saved” view to keep them steadfast.

      Coming up to Hebrews 6 the writer has explained various Old Testament types like the meaning of “the Promised Land” and “Melchizedek.” In 5:11 he writes “about this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing,” meaning there is much more about Jesus and our salvation by grace through faith but the readers will find it difficult to grasp. As long as they are clinging to the old way of thinking, the way of observing the Law for salvation, the way of reading the Old Testament as speaking primarily about the history of the Jewish people, they will have difficulty understanding the Old Testament in a Gospel light and are constantly in danger of being deceived.

      Hebrews 6:1 starts out with the word “therefore.” The word means, because of what I’ve already written, the following should happen. He then indicates the things a mature Christian understands and finds in the Old Testament, the elementary doctrine of Christ which include repentance from dead works (we can’t save ourselves by “good” works), faith toward God (salvation by grace through faith in Jesus), instruction about washings (baptism), laying on of hands (office of the ministry of the Gospel), resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment (Second Coming of Jesus and beyond).

      We now come to the warning in Hebrews 6:4-8. Everything about the warning seems to indicate that the writer is speaking about mature Christians who know and handle the Scriptures well and who have lived their faith. This, then, warns us that none of us dare “rest on our laurels.” We are never to consider ourselves “retired” from an active Christian life. Even if you are homebound, you can pray for the Church and encourage your family and other visitors. This service comes in our everyday life, in how we interact and speak with our family, our neighbors, those we work with, those we meet while on vacation, as well as those at our local church. The warning is that even the strong can fall if they become disconnected.

      How one keeps firm in the faith is by clinging to the gifts God give in Word and Sacrament. These gifts he has placed in the Church which is why being part of a faithful worshiping community is so important (God even made it one of the Ten Commandments – Exodus 20:8). It is also why visiting the homebound is so important. If they can’t come to worship, the pastor or other designated members of the congregation bring the worship to them.

      We need to remember that the hidden things of God are, well… the hidden things of God (Deuteronomy 29:29). We must stick with what he has revealed in the Word and not speculate about what he has kept hidden or, at the very least, not base our faith on such speculations. One of those “hidden things” is when a person crosses this point of no return. Therefore we are not to judge that this or that person has so hardened their heart that they have placed themselves beyond the reach of the Gospel. We share the Word of God with all, the Word by which the Holy Spirit calls us to faith. How they respond is out of our control. I’ve certainly seen more than one person brought to faith in Jesus who was written off by family and friend as beyond redemption. I might also say that this means we trust in Christ, not election.

      Finally, I’m surprised that this verse is referenced by someone who accepts the idea of “eternal election.” In my (admittedly limited) experience, eternal election advocates try to avoid it. When speaking with those who hold to this teaching about this passage they have typically responded by saying “Hebrews doesn’t say that there are some who have fallen, only that if they fell from faith it would be impossible etc.” That line of reasoning undercuts the warning and admonition the writer of Hebrews is giving. Perhaps the most famous biblical figure that lost his faith would be Judas (John 17:12).

      Well, this is probably a longer response then you were expecting. I hope it helps.

      Blessings in Christ,
      Pastor Rickert

    3. Pray DHoffmann prayed

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •