• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrassed
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
    Results 31 to 40 of 74

    Denomination & Faith Movement Discussions - Thread: Philippians 2:12 ?

    1. #31
      Snerfle is offline Veteran Member
      Supporting Member
      Mood:
      Geeky
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2017
      Location
      In a house
      Posts
      1,565
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      123,436
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      9,277
      Level
      28
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      89.06%
      Rep Power
      183
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Nope, you misread what I posted. Go back and read it again. It's not works salvation at all.
      I read it carefully and included it in my reply. I re-quoted it again below and I'll show where you turned the phrase 'work OUT your salvation' into 'works'.

      Quote Originally Posted by meluckycharms View Post
      I think what he is trying to say is that we don't do works to be saved. We do them because we already are saved. At least that's what I think he is saying. Like it says in James 2.

      What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless ?
      James 2:14*, ‬18*-‬20 NIV
      https://bible.com/bible/111/jas.2.14-20.NIV

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
      That MIGHT be what he was TRYING to say, but that's not what he said. Either way, it's not the context of the letter. And jumping to a completely different letter, (James to the 12 Tribes vs. Paul to the believers at Philippi, is taking a text out of context to try to make a prooftext to support a pretext.

      Philippians is not about works righteousness, nor is it about Paul telling them to PROVE they have faith or salvation.
      He was quite confident of it, and commended them for it. He loved these friends and believers dearly, and this letter shows how personally caring for them he was, as well as the joy and love he's encouraging them (and us) with.

      Btw, you gave a great reminder with this post, of why I try to avoid the NIV as much as possible.
      Really bad copy. If someone came up to me bragging 'You have faith, I have deeds ... I will show you my faith by my deeds' , I think I might tell them to take their pharisaical pride and boasting and shov.....err, go away. Lol. But seriously, I think I'd tell them to read the 1st chapter of 1Corinthians, all 31 verses, in the KJV.

      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      So why do we need to work out our salvation when works do not save us?

      Because though we are saved by God’s unconditional electing grace through the gift of faith, the works we do prove that our faith is real. Works are evidence of election.

      That’s why on one hand Jesus says, “No one can come to me unless the Father. . . draws him” (election), and on the other hand he says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments (evidence of election). He ties both together when he says, “My sheep hear my voice (election) and I know them, and they follow me” (evidence).
      https://www.desiringgod.org/articles...-our-salvation
      You ask, 'Why do we need to WORK OUT our salvation when WORKS do not save us?'

      You confused Pauls encouragement to the Philippians to WORK OUT their situations in light of the salvation they already have, with WORKS.
      They always were doing what they should have been while he was with them...Paul was encouraging them to continue to do so in his absence. He was encouraging them to mature, growth, work it out on their own.

      You answer your own question with more emphasis on 'works' as a necessity to 'prove' we have faith. This is where you seem to imply that if we DONT have works, we either arent saved, or we dont KEEP saved.
      Then you pick some verses from two different contexts in Johns gospel as prooftexts to your point, (which I also disagree with your interpretation of the Good Shepherd passage from John10, but thats a separate issue) but that still has nothing to do with Philippians2. And Philippians2 is not about works righteousness, or them having to prove they have faith.
      os as

      ~Ignoring others...especially other
      believers, is anti-christian.~ 1John

    2. Likes meluckycharms liked this post
    3. #32
      MennoSota is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      1,580
      CH Cash
      6,589
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      5,970
      Level
      23
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      92.42%
      Rep Power
      148
      Quote Originally Posted by Snerfle View Post
      I read it carefully and included it in my reply. I re-quoted it again below and I'll show where you turned the phrase 'work OUT your salvation' into 'works'.

      That MIGHT be what he was TRYING to say, but that's not what he said. Either way, it's not the context of the letter. And jumping to a completely different letter, (James to the 12 Tribes vs. Paul to the believers at Philippi, is taking a text out of context to try to make a prooftext to support a pretext.

      Philippians is not about works righteousness, nor is it about Paul telling them to PROVE they have faith or salvation.
      He was quite confident of it, and commended them for it. He loved these friends and believers dearly, and this letter shows how personally caring for them he was, as well as the joy and love he's encouraging them (and us) with.

      Btw, you gave a great reminder with this post, of why I try to avoid the NIV as much as possible.
      Really bad copy. If someone came up to me bragging 'You have faith, I have deeds ... I will show you my faith by my deeds' , I think I might tell them to take their pharisaical pride and boasting and shov.....err, go away. Lol. But seriously, I think I'd tell them to read the 1st chapter of 1Corinthians, all 31 verses, in the KJV.

      You ask, 'Why do we need to WORK OUT our salvation when WORKS do not save us?'

      You confused Pauls encouragement to the Philippians to WORK OUT their situations in light of the salvation they already have, with WORKS.
      They always were doing what they should have been while he was with them...Paul was encouraging them to continue to do so in his absence. He was encouraging them to mature, growth, work it out on their own.

      You answer your own question with more emphasis on 'works' as a necessity to 'prove' we have faith. This is where you seem to imply that if we DONT have works, we either arent saved, or we dont KEEP saved.
      Then you pick some verses from two different contexts in Johns gospel as prooftexts to your point, (which I also disagree with your interpretation of the Good Shepherd passage from John10, but thats a separate issue) but that still has nothing to do with Philippians2. And Philippians2 is not about works righteousness, or them having to prove they have faith.
      You miss the point entirely Snerfle. Take a nap and re-read it again.

    4. Likes meluckycharms, Imalive liked this post
    5. #33
      meluckycharms's Avatar
      meluckycharms is offline Apprentice Member
      31
      Married
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2016
      Posts
      169
      CH Cash
      850
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      958
      Level
      10
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      73.6%
      Rep Power
      26
      Quote Originally Posted by Snerfle View Post
      Btw, you gave a great reminder with this post, of why I try to avoid the NIV as much as possible.
      Really bad copy. If someone came up to me bragging 'You have faith, I have deeds ... I will show you my faith by my deeds' , I think I might tell them to take their pharisaical pride and boasting and shov.....err, go away. Lol. But seriously, I think I'd tell them to read the 1st chapter of 1Corinthians, all 31 verses, in the KJV.
      Well, considering my hermeneutics professor is on the NIV new testament board and helped translate much of the NT NIV from the original Greek. I can ask him for you.


      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

    6. Likes Imalive liked this post
    7. #34
      Imalive's Avatar
      Imalive is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,082
      Country
      Netherlands
      CH Cash
      496,653
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      8,597
      Level
      27
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      97.12%
      Rep Power
      203
      Quote Originally Posted by Snerfle View Post
      Wow, I read your posts, and find you bouncing back and forth between being saved, once for all forever, and then NOT, and having fear of LOSING salvation. I'm not judging, honestly, I'm just trying to understand your position. Are you saved, osas and we can rejoice together in the great salvation of our God and Saviour Jesus? (I hope)

      Or is there a fear that if we dont do this or that, or we DO do this or that, we lose our salvation? (Yes, DHoffman, I said doodoo, now knock it off, lol, )

      And I still dont know what some other ppl believe ... If someone loses their salvation, is it lost forever? Or can they get saved again and still make it into heaven?

      The whole idea of NOTosas is totally confusing me, (please stick with me Tigger, I WILL relate it to your OP) and yet, I think I used to not be osas, but I guess I just didnt understand it in context, and bc of so many works/obedience/law preachers, I just wasn't getting it.
      It's hard to unravel the layers of religion and legalistic teaching.

      For the OP, I recently addressed this passage in another thread ..... First, to understand and apply it, we MUST be born-again...saved...and that's a done deal.

      We're saved and eternally secure in Christ.
      Jesus did that for us, not of ANY works of ours.

      It's funny, but some folks like to warn about losing your salvation (not possible) but I think the better warning is to warn against false teaching and forming bad doctrines based on chopping verses out of scripture/context, or twisting their meanings.

      I warn against it, but there are groups and whole denoms who insist on it, along with solo preachers like on tv, and their flocks.

      And they seem to have favorite verses and passages they like to go to over and over , like Hebrews 6:4-6, or 10:26-29, etc., they pick and choose from a handful or two of favorite verses which add fear and doubt, in order to keep ppl in control and oppressed, and this verse from Philippians is one of them.

      I feel bad for ppl who get trapped into that, I understand and pray for them to come out of it, but the false teachers really anger me, but anyway,
      .......this verse 2:12, when isolated, can be troublesome, that's why it's important to have ASSURANCE of salvation first.

      The letter is written to the believers at Phillipi by Paul from prison. It's filled with exhortations to joy for all believers as well. It's important to rightly divide the Word, and keep things in context.
      Paul is also giving instructions for believers on how to be before God and for each other.

      Chapter 2 encourages them, and us, to be likeminded in the faith, care for one another, putting each others needs ahead of their own, showing Jesus' example of how He humbled Himself for our benefit, laying down His life to pay for our sins.

      Vss9-11 show Him to be God our Saviour, for all, and verses12-19 is an exhortation to the Phillipians to continue being christians practicing brotherly love, as they've done, and for Paul to be able to rejoice with them when he gets there.

      Vs12 is NOT telling the unsaved to work FOR their salvation, nor is it telling worried believers to be fearful of losing their salvation.

      It's an encouragement to take the salvation WHICH THEY ALREADY HAVE, and work it OUTWARDLY towards one another in humble service to each other and to minister the Word of God to each other and the world.

      As meluckycharms and Lämmchen both pointed out so well...The fear and trembling is about respect (fear) and careful handling (trembling) of Gods gift of salvation for these young christians, to grow, even in Pauls absence.
      GBU.
      I believe eternal security, but not unconditional one sided osas. Osas if you abide in Him. If someone doubts their salvation for no reason there's eternal security verses, but if someone is living in sin, like that guy you told me, who cheated on his wife and now lives w the other, he doesnt need any osas preaching, oh dear sweetheart don't worry. That is the false teaching I am against and they call it osas. It is just not always true. There will be a falling away. It is true for the ones who listen and obey. That guy needs someone to warn him with hell and if he then listens, he doesnt get lost.
      Because if all he hears is that God doesnt like it blablabla but no hell warning, why on earth would he quit and come back on the road? False grace preachers don't tell you the truth anymore. That's what I hate.
      The warning with hell is to keep you saved. God has warned me with hell Personally when I was about to really get off the road in 2013. I remember I also later listened to John Kilpatrick, cause despite the warning I was so dumb to not completely get out of that situation and he said: Get out there now in the Name of Jesus! Thats the preaching you need if you're in danger of hell, not that it's impossible to get unborn. How am I to know at that moment that I am an elect who stays saved? You know if you listen. My sheep hear My voice.
      It's like: does someone get saved if he commits suicide? Yes I know someone who got saved cause I had to pray for him and he wasnt a christian and shot himself. No way though I am gonna say that to a christian who says she wants to commit suicide. Then you say dont do it or you go to hell. Thats what God said to me when I tried to do it and why I didnt take the rest of the pills.
      Do you know why I even did an attempt? I was too secure, too osas. Thats a false security. False grace leads to sin. I thought: I just take the pills, then say the sinners prayer, so He has to forgive me and it'll be too late. But I got so tired, I had to hurry up and had half of the poison left and after I prayed it He said that now if I took the rest the prayer meant nothing and I would be a hypocrit and I had to call for help.
      Last edited by Imalive; 01-14-2018 at 03:52 AM.

    8. Likes DHoffmann liked this post
    9. #35
      Snerfle is offline Veteran Member
      Supporting Member
      Mood:
      Geeky
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2017
      Location
      In a house
      Posts
      1,565
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      123,436
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      9,277
      Level
      28
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      89.06%
      Rep Power
      183
      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      I believe eternal security, but not unconditional one sided osas. Osas if you abide in Him. If someone doubts their salvation for no reason there's eternal security verses, but if someone is living in sin, like that guy you told me, who cheated on his wife and now lives w the other, he doesnt need any osas preaching, oh dear sweetheart don't worry. That is the false teaching I am against and they call it osas. It is just not always true. There will be a falling away. It is true for the ones who listen and obey. That guy needs someone to warn him with hell and if he then listens, he doesnt get lost.
      Because if all he hears is that God doesnt like it blablabla but no hell warning, why on earth would he quit and come back on the road? False grace preachers don't tell you the truth anymore. That's what I hate.
      The warning with hell is to keep you saved. God has warned me with hell Personally when I was about to really get off the road in 2013. I remember I also later listened to John Kilpatrick, cause despite the warning I was so dumb to not completely get out of that situation and he said: Get out there now in the Name of Jesus! Thats the preaching you need if you're in danger of hell, not that it's impossible to get unborn. How am I to know at that moment that I am an elect who stays saved? You know if you listen. My sheep hear My voice.
      It's like: does someone get saved if he commits suicide? Yes I know someone who got saved cause I had to pray for him and he wasnt a christian and shot himself. No way though I am gonna say that to a christian who says she wants to commit suicide. Then you say dont do it or you go to hell. Thats what God said to me when I tried to do it and why I didnt take the rest of the pills.
      Do you know why I even did an attempt? I was too secure, too osas. Thats a false security. False grace leads to sin. I thought: I just take the pills, then say the sinners prayer, so He has to forgive me and it'll be too late. But I got so tired, I had to hurry up and had half of the poison left and after I prayed it He said that now if I took the rest the prayer meant nothing and I would be a hypocrit and I had to call for help.
      If you would have ever listened when I was telling you, instead of the lies the devil tells you to, bc as soon as you hear osas, you freak out and cant hear anything else, we could have avoided alot of the nonsense.

      But here again is a perfect example of it ... I told you 3 times what my friend was going thru with his buddy.
      I told you 3 times what he told him, how it was grieving him to no end that he had to back away from his friend bc be couldnt support what he was doing, and how he's been warned that he is leading himself and his family down a destructive path, that its not where God wants him, and it's not what Jesus died for him for,

      ....how IF he thinks that's how the Lord wants him treating his wife, his kids, the other girl, himself, or his Saviour, he might want to check to see if he's even saved!
      That's what happened.

      My friend asked ME one night about osas, bc he was misunderstanding it and the whole situation, and was in turmoil over his friend.

      I explained osas to MY FRIEND, okay? I told you that.
      I dont know his buddy (that Im aware of, maybe I do, but he didnt mention names, it's not about gossip, like so many 'christians' like to indulge in, but I dont think I know him anyway)

      I didnt tell his buddy to go live in sin like the devil like who cares osas so no big deal,
      and I tried to tell you that 3times, but you chose to IGNORE that and continue listening to the lies in your own head and using them against me to condemn me . Again.

      Well, I'll have none of it...
      I see that stuff all over the place on the net... the false accusations, the twisting of the meaning of eternal security, the bibles words (and my words as well), it's disgusting what ppl who hate grace wont stoop to...you should see some of it.

      I have spent more time trying to correct things, oy, but you insist on finding every chance you can to take up sides against me, no matter what.

      I cant count the number of times Ive had to say to you, 'No, dear, thats not true, heres the truth'...
      'No, dear, that's not the truth, here's the truth'...
      'No, dear, that's not the truth, here's the truth'...
      Buy you'll just stick to your own story about me anyway.... It's a shame.

      You have defended all kinds of things, even heresies, against me at times, why? idk, just to find ways to put me down, it seems? ... ignore? abandon? and the spirit of friendship and brotherly love you dont give to me at all. I really dont know why, I just know it hurts.

      You've defended some pretty mean things against me, and I've never quite figured out why, but I have a good guess.

      Whether it's the RC denom with all its lies and abominations, or false tv-type 'preachers' etc, it's just crazy.
      But their anti-grace teaching leads to antagonism and then excommunication ... I see it so much these days, it's really a shame.

      Meanwhile, I'd like to know who the self-righteous hypocrite is that came up with the terms falsegrace, cheapgrace, or easy-believism, ... and he now has works-salvation ppl saying it every chance they get. It's sad and horrible, really.
      There's nothing false or cheap about the grace of God. First of all, salvation isnt cheap...it's FREE, and grace is not false or cheap, it's TRUE and it cost God EVERYTHING.

      For ppl to throw that term around is just insulting, (idk why you started doing it, you never used to) but I think alot of other ppl do it to try to justify their own CHEAP WORKS, as if they can do anything to add to the finished work of Christ.

      Unfortunately, they then convince others to believe the same nonsense, and before you know it, instead of having the joy of salvation and the loving of one another in their hearts, they're persecuting and condemning to hell their own brothers and sisters in the faith.

      But maybe THEY'RE the ones that arent in the faith yet. They seem to be stuck in their own version of Romans10:3 ... And they not only refuse to move forward into verses 10:4-13, but seem intent on dragging others down into works-righteousness themselves.

      Jesus is not a wishy-washy God.
      Who He saves, He saves to the uttermost.
      If a person teaches works for salvation, they teach a false gospel.
      If they teach you can LOSE the salvation that God GAVE to someone as a gift of His grace, they teach a false gospel.
      If someone teaches that there are WORKS you must do, laws you must obey, things you must stop or start or change, in order to get saved or have God keep you saved, they teach a false gospel.

      It's the devil that wants to keep ppl doubting and fearing, and having to perform works to get or stay saved, rather than believing in Jesus.

      That performance-based righteousnes is not only the sin of unbelief, but it leads to more sins ... Backbiting, strife, gossip, lies and slander, hatred, false accusations against the brethren, it just spirals down to separation and bitterness and anti-christian attitudes and behaviors.

      Jesus' biggest problem wasn't so much with sinners sinning, it was with the self-righteous/works-righteous hypocrites that thought they could DO something to earn or keep the salvation which He purchased with His own blood.

      I've tried so much to help you see that, and come out from that kind of teaching.
      Of course it's great that you wanted to change your lifestyle, dont you think I support you on that? (and just about everything this past year?)

      But if someone scared you out of it with threats of hell, hey, I'm glad if you're life improved as a result ...but Maybe the Holy Spirit was convicting you of sin and judgement and righteousness .... That's what He does to the world. But we get saved by hearing and believing the Gospel.

      I dont know if thats when you got saved, but if you were already saved but backslidden, then God proved (and you confirmed) that you didnt lose your salvation and God doesnt lose His own. So that's great, right?

      And now you are free to believe and preach the GOSPEL of the GRACE of God ... His grace, His mercy, His forgiveness, His longsuffering, His goodness, His love!

      We have it all bc of Jesus! You and I ... we could have had alot together under the grace of God .... Maybe we still could, or maybe it's not His will, idk, but I really think it's time to get onboard and on the same page together.
      If nothing else, then AT LEAST as brother and sister IN CHRIST.
      We should be able to rejoice together.
      Please, tho, just beware of false teachers who try to make us focus on sin and works and what good sheep we are, instead of focusing on what a Good Shepherd Jesus is.
      Jesus loves you, Imalive ... And for what it's worth, if even as a brother and a friend, so do I.
      os as

      ~Ignoring others...especially other
      believers, is anti-christian.~ 1John

    10. #36
      Imalive's Avatar
      Imalive is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,082
      Country
      Netherlands
      CH Cash
      496,653
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      8,597
      Level
      27
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      97.12%
      Rep Power
      203
      Quote Originally Posted by Snerfle View Post
      If you would have ever listened when I was telling you, instead of the lies the devil tells you to, bc as soon as you hear osas, you freak out and cant hear anything else, we could have avoided alot of the nonsense.

      But here again is a perfect example of it ... I told you 3 times what my friend was going thru with his buddy.
      I told you 3 times what he told him, how it was grieving him to no end that he had to back away from his friend bc be couldnt support what he was doing, and how he's been warned that he is leading himself and his family down a destructive path, that its not where God wants him, and it's not what Jesus died for him for,

      ....how IF he thinks that's how the Lord wants him treating his wife, his kids, the other girl, himself, or his Saviour, he might want to check to see if he's even saved!
      That's what happened.

      My friend asked ME one night about osas, bc he was misunderstanding it and the whole situation, and was in turmoil over his friend.

      I explained osas to MY FRIEND, okay? I told you that.
      I dont know his buddy (that Im aware of, maybe I do, but he didnt mention names, it's not about gossip, like so many 'christians' like to indulge in, but I dont think I know him anyway)

      I didnt tell his buddy to go live in sin like the devil like who cares osas so no big deal,
      and I tried to tell you that 3times, but you chose to IGNORE that and continue listening to the lies in your own head and using them against me to condemn me . Again.

      Well, I'll have none of it...
      I see that stuff all over the place on the net... the false accusations, the twisting of the meaning of eternal security, the bibles words (and my words as well), it's disgusting what ppl who hate grace wont stoop to...you should see some of it.

      I have spent more time trying to correct things, oy, but you insist on finding every chance you can to take up sides against me, no matter what.

      I cant count the number of times Ive had to say to you, 'No, dear, thats not true, heres the truth'...
      'No, dear, that's not the truth, here's the truth'...
      'No, dear, that's not the truth, here's the truth'...
      Buy you'll just stick to your own story about me anyway.... It's a shame.

      You have defended all kinds of things, even heresies, against me at times, why? idk, just to find ways to put me down, it seems? ... ignore? abandon? and the spirit of friendship and brotherly love you dont give to me at all. I really dont know why, I just know it hurts.

      You've defended some pretty mean things against me, and I've never quite figured out why, but I have a good guess.

      Whether it's the RC denom with all its lies and abominations, or false tv-type 'preachers' etc, it's just crazy.
      But their anti-grace teaching leads to antagonism and then excommunication ... I see it so much these days, it's really a shame.

      Meanwhile, I'd like to know who the self-righteous hypocrite is that came up with the terms falsegrace, cheapgrace, or easy-believism, ... and he now has works-salvation ppl saying it every chance they get. It's sad and horrible, really.
      There's nothing false or cheap about the grace of God. First of all, salvation isnt cheap...it's FREE, and grace is not false or cheap, it's TRUE and it cost God EVERYTHING.

      For ppl to throw that term around is just insulting, (idk why you started doing it, you never used to) but I think alot of other ppl do it to try to justify their own CHEAP WORKS, as if they can do anything to add to the finished work of Christ.

      Unfortunately, they then convince others to believe the same nonsense, and before you know it, instead of having the joy of salvation and the loving of one another in their hearts, they're persecuting and condemning to hell their own brothers and sisters in the faith.

      But maybe THEY'RE the ones that arent in the faith yet. They seem to be stuck in their own version of Romans10:3 ... And they not only refuse to move forward into verses 10:4-13, but seem intent on dragging others down into works-righteousness themselves.

      Jesus is not a wishy-washy God.
      Who He saves, He saves to the uttermost.
      If a person teaches works for salvation, they teach a false gospel.
      If they teach you can LOSE the salvation that God GAVE to someone as a gift of His grace, they teach a false gospel.
      If someone teaches that there are WORKS you must do, laws you must obey, things you must stop or start or change, in order to get saved or have God keep you saved, they teach a false gospel.

      It's the devil that wants to keep ppl doubting and fearing, and having to perform works to get or stay saved, rather than believing in Jesus.

      That performance-based righteousnes is not only the sin of unbelief, but it leads to more sins ... Backbiting, strife, gossip, lies and slander, hatred, false accusations against the brethren, it just spirals down to separation and bitterness and anti-christian attitudes and behaviors.

      Jesus' biggest problem wasn't so much with sinners sinning, it was with the self-righteous/works-righteous hypocrites that thought they could DO something to earn or keep the salvation which He purchased with His own blood.

      I've tried so much to help you see that, and come out from that kind of teaching.
      Of course it's great that you wanted to change your lifestyle, dont you think I support you on that? (and just about everything this past year?)

      But if someone scared you out of it with threats of hell, hey, I'm glad if you're life improved as a result ...but Maybe the Holy Spirit was convicting you of sin and judgement and righteousness .... That's what He does to the world. But we get saved by hearing and believing the Gospel.

      I dont know if thats when you got saved, but if you were already saved but backslidden, then God proved (and you confirmed) that you didnt lose your salvation and God doesnt lose His own. So that's great, right?

      And now you are free to believe and preach the GOSPEL of the GRACE of God ... His grace, His mercy, His forgiveness, His longsuffering, His goodness, His love!

      We have it all bc of Jesus! You and I ... we could have had alot together under the grace of God .... Maybe we still could, or maybe it's not His will, idk, but I really think it's time to get onboard and on the same page together.
      If nothing else, then AT LEAST as brother and sister IN CHRIST.
      We should be able to rejoice together.
      Please, tho, just beware of false teachers who try to make us focus on sin and works and what good sheep we are, instead of focusing on what a Good Shepherd Jesus is.
      Jesus loves you, Imalive ... And for what it's worth, if even as a brother and a friend, so do I.
      I cant read this. Lies in your own head.
      I just stop reading and am too lazy to defend anything.

    11. Likes psalms 91 liked this post
    12. #37
      DHoffmann's Avatar
      DHoffmann is offline Veteran Member
      33
      Single
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      1,018
      CH Cash
      5,095
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      3,831
      Level
      19
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      73.53%
      Rep Power
      117
      I suppose someone who is saved cannot be unsaved. We also cannot be redeemed twice (same difference).
      One CAN backslide however, and OSAS doesn't really apply to Judas which causes me a headache sometimes because Jesus HAD to be betrayed by someone to fulfill prophesy... so what does that say for predestination?
      In the case of your friend Snerfle, it's good to comfort your brother, we have Gods grace but its not exactly OSAS, I believe its even better tho. Just don't let OSAS replace grace, grace gives us a sense of conviction at least, OSAS can eliminate the sense of conviction IMO.

      OSAS isn't true without grace, and grace isn't for mans free will but man seeking Gods will.

    13. Likes Imalive liked this post
    14. #38
      Imalive's Avatar
      Imalive is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,082
      Country
      Netherlands
      CH Cash
      496,653
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      8,597
      Level
      27
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      97.12%
      Rep Power
      203
      Who that hypocrit is who came up w false grace? Michael Brown. The Bible calls it lewdness.
      Oh he calls it hypergrace.
      https://www.charismanews.com/opinion...-grace-friends

      This is a response of a hyper grace teacher, this is hypergrace:

      https://www.google.nl/amp/s/escapeto...ntroversy/amp/

      Why he wants to befriend em beats me btw. That's the end time delusion.
      Last edited by Imalive; 01-14-2018 at 05:26 PM.

    15. #39
      meluckycharms's Avatar
      meluckycharms is offline Apprentice Member
      31
      Married
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2016
      Posts
      169
      CH Cash
      850
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      958
      Level
      10
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      73.6%
      Rep Power
      26
      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      I suppose someone who is saved cannot be unsaved. We also cannot be redeemed twice (same difference).
      One CAN backslide however, and OSAS doesn't really apply to Judas which causes me a headache sometimes because Jesus HAD to be betrayed by someone to fulfill prophesy... so what does that say for predestination?
      In the case of your friend Snerfle, it's good to comfort your brother, we have Gods grace but its not exactly OSAS, I believe its even better tho. Just don't let OSAS replace grace, grace gives us a sense of conviction at least, OSAS can eliminate the sense of conviction IMO.

      OSAS isn't true without grace, and grace isn't for mans free will but man seeking Gods will.
      A Baptist pastor once referenced hebrews 6 and explained to me that people who back slide were never truly saved to begin with.

      It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
      Hebrews 6:4*-‬6 NIV
      https://bible.com/bible/111/heb.6.4-6.NIV

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

    16. Likes DHoffmann liked this post
    17. #40
      DHoffmann's Avatar
      DHoffmann is offline Veteran Member
      33
      Single
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      1,018
      CH Cash
      5,095
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      3,831
      Level
      19
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      73.53%
      Rep Power
      117
      Quote Originally Posted by meluckycharms View Post
      A Baptist pastor once referenced hebrews 6 and explained to me that people who back slide were never truly saved to begin with.

      It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
      Hebrews 6:4*-‬6 NIV
      https://bible.com/bible/111/heb.6.4-6.NIV

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
      So they are saved but if they fall back then they were never saved? Or is it saying that those who became enlightened and such and such... could not fall away? Or both?
      It seems like those who fall away or then against Christ and then are they crucifying him being an enemy.

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

    18. Likes meluckycharms liked this post

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •