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    Denomination & Faith Movement Discussions - Thread: Philippians 2:12 ?

    1. #11
      Imalive's Avatar
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      I'm against osas too, but more how they preach it now, one sided without warning or fear of the Lord. Paul prayed for his disciples. He taught em to observe what Jesus said. If ppl would not listen and lived a lifestyle of sin and just called themselves a brother, they would be kicked out of church, but now if a church doesn't preach against sin or set ppl free, ppl just keep attending and don't do any effort to stop sinning and believe they're also once saved always saved.

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    3. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by meluckycharms View Post
      Gotcha. I see what you are talking about. I can definitely see what you mean. I can also see how one could conclude OSAS. It's a valid position to have. My interpretation is that Paul is providing encouragement. Because of their behavior, Paul is confident that the Philippians will be saved. However, this confidence is not an indicator of a guarantee.



      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
      I would agree with you that is more likely what he had in mind

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    5. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      I would agree with you that is more likely what he had in mind
      Dutch translation says of this I am fully convinced.

    6. #14
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    8. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
      Philippians 2:12...continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

      This scripture verse has always troubled me and can cause me concern and anxiety.

      I’m particularly interested in the Lutheran perspective but the question is open to all who would like to contribute.

      Please just answer the question itself without contending with the other posters. I’ll be able to discern for myself the most scripturally orthodox teaching with a possible follow up question or two.

      God’s blessings
      Lutherans will always point you to Jesus the Savior for your salvation. So when looking at that verse where is the certainty of your salvation? Is it in something YOU do or is it in Jesus and the forgiveness of sins He won at the cross for you?

      The verse says "work out" not "work for" and that is key to understanding it. Our salvation is in Jesus not in anything we can do to earn it so we work out what Jesus has done for us and we do so by faith. We live our lives by faith because Christ died to save even the worst sinners.

      Helping us understand the verse is also the context of what comes before it and what comes after. Before the verse in point we see Christ's humility. Look at the following verse now, for the one bringing forth in you both the desire and the effort—for the sake of his good pleasure—is God. You see that the desire and effort is God's doing.

      An unbeliever doesn't "fear" or are in "awe" of God because he doesn't even believe in God. Paul writes in this letter telling believers to be lights of the world. We do that by serving our neighbor because our neighbor needs our love and help and because God wants us to love our neighbors.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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    10. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      Dutch translation says of this I am fully convinced.
      As always, context is everything. Paul had a very close relationship with those in Philippi. He was expressing his confidence in their salvation. People try to apply this to everyone when Paul was not writing to everyone.

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    12. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      As always, context is everything. Paul had a very close relationship with those in Philippi. He was expressing his confidence in their salvation. People try to apply this to everyone when Paul was not writing to everyone.
      Yes he saw their fruit. That's why he said it.

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    14. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      If it causes me concern, I first wonder if the devil is accusing me or if there's really something wrong and if there's cause for concern. Then I confess my sins 1 John 1:9 and He cleanses me w His blood and my conscience. For some things I needed prayer in church or demons kicked out.
      God warns you to keep you safe.
      Satan accuses and gives no way out. The Holy Spirit convinces and shows a way out. Get to know who you are in Christ. You are made holy and you can put to death the deeds of the body through His help. If not and you're in Romans 7 then cry out to God and you come in Romans 8.
      One guy on cf was addicted to porn for 38 years. He was a pastor. He prayed and fasted and nothing worked and eventually he gave up and God said: with this My son I am well pleased. You cant do it yourself. Then he had to confess that he died and raised with Christ and he was set free instantly.
      But even Smith Wigglesworth, when he was a young believer would get scared and think everyone was raptured except him. That was accusation from the devil.
      They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of their mouth and they didnt love their life unto death.
      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      My son had anxiety and demons telling him the whole day that one day he'd leave God and go to hell. Day in day out. Because the kid was 8 and his dad taught about hell in church. It went on for quite some time and dad rebuked that demon, but he kept saying they said this and that. Then he took him to a psychologist who wanted to put him on drugs and I got furious, but I had nothing to say and I had one week to fix this. So I said to my son: I dedicated you before conception and told God I would not have kids w out the assurance theyd always follow Him. So dont worry, once saved always saved. And I said: tell your dad you dont hear it anymore.
      But then I lie.
      No its the truth. God says it. He whom the Son sets free is free indeed and we prayed that you'd be set free. Period.
      So he did that. Dad didnt believe him, but within a week it was gone. Psychologist said he was okay and didnt need meds.

      Btw dont just read Phillippians 2, read it in context.
      Phillippians 1:

      I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, 5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ

      He warns to keep you safe. Angel said to Paul that no prisoner on the ship would die, but when they tried to escape, he said: stay on the ship else you die.
      That warning kept them safe.
      Wow, I read your posts, and find you bouncing back and forth between being saved, once for all forever, and then NOT, and having fear of LOSING salvation. I'm not judging, honestly, I'm just trying to understand your position. Are you saved, osas and we can rejoice together in the great salvation of our God and Saviour Jesus? (I hope)

      Or is there a fear that if we dont do this or that, or we DO do this or that, we lose our salvation? (Yes, DHoffman, I said doodoo, now knock it off, lol, )

      And I still dont know what some other ppl believe ... If someone loses their salvation, is it lost forever? Or can they get saved again and still make it into heaven?

      The whole idea of NOTosas is totally confusing me, (please stick with me Tigger, I WILL relate it to your OP) and yet, I think I used to not be osas, but I guess I just didnt understand it in context, and bc of so many works/obedience/law preachers, I just wasn't getting it.
      It's hard to unravel the layers of religion and legalistic teaching.

      For the OP, I recently addressed this passage in another thread ..... First, to understand and apply it, we MUST be born-again...saved...and that's a done deal.

      We're saved and eternally secure in Christ.
      Jesus did that for us, not of ANY works of ours.

      It's funny, but some folks like to warn about losing your salvation (not possible) but I think the better warning is to warn against false teaching and forming bad doctrines based on chopping verses out of scripture/context, or twisting their meanings.

      I warn against it, but there are groups and whole denoms who insist on it, along with solo preachers like on tv, and their flocks.

      And they seem to have favorite verses and passages they like to go to over and over , like Hebrews 6:4-6, or 10:26-29, etc., they pick and choose from a handful or two of favorite verses which add fear and doubt, in order to keep ppl in control and oppressed, and this verse from Philippians is one of them.

      I feel bad for ppl who get trapped into that, I understand and pray for them to come out of it, but the false teachers really anger me, but anyway,
      .......this verse 2:12, when isolated, can be troublesome, that's why it's important to have ASSURANCE of salvation first.

      The letter is written to the believers at Phillipi by Paul from prison. It's filled with exhortations to joy for all believers as well. It's important to rightly divide the Word, and keep things in context.
      Paul is also giving instructions for believers on how to be before God and for each other.

      Chapter 2 encourages them, and us, to be likeminded in the faith, care for one another, putting each others needs ahead of their own, showing Jesus' example of how He humbled Himself for our benefit, laying down His life to pay for our sins.

      Vss9-11 show Him to be God our Saviour, for all, and verses12-19 is an exhortation to the Phillipians to continue being christians practicing brotherly love, as they've done, and for Paul to be able to rejoice with them when he gets there.

      Vs12 is NOT telling the unsaved to work FOR their salvation, nor is it telling worried believers to be fearful of losing their salvation.

      It's an encouragement to take the salvation WHICH THEY ALREADY HAVE, and work it OUTWARDLY towards one another in humble service to each other and to minister the Word of God to each other and the world.

      As meluckycharms and Lämmchen both pointed out so well...The fear and trembling is about respect (fear) and careful handling (trembling) of Gods gift of salvation for these young christians, to grow, even in Pauls absence.
      GBU.
      ~Deliberate ignorance
      is anti-christian~

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    16. #19
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      Thanks everyone, I think I got some really good answers. I think the verse is worded so strongly that I start getting tunnel vision

      Also Orthodoxy has a strong draw on me but with my personality I should probably stick with evangelical churches.

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    18. #20
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      My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:27-29.

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