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    Christian Theology - Thread: What does God's Sovereignty mean?

    1. #1
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      What does God's Sovereignty mean?

      The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission. God works not just some things but all things according to the counsel of His own will (see Eph. 1:11). His purposes are all-inclusive and never thwarted (see Isa. 46:11); nothing takes Him by surprise. The sovereignty of God is not merely that God has the power and right to govern all things, but that He does so, always and without exception. In other words, God is not merely sovereign de jure (in principle), but sovereign de facto (in practice).

      "What do we mean by [the sovereignty of God]? We mean the supremacy of God, the kingship of God, the god-hood of God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that God is God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Most High, doing according to His will in the army of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, so that none can stay His hand or say unto Him what doest Thou? (Dan. 4:35). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Almighty, the Possessor of all power in Heaven and earth, so that none can defeat His counsels, thwart His purpose, or resist His will (Psa. 115:3). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is "The Governor among the nations" (Psa. 22:28), setting up kingdoms, overthrowing empires, and determining the course of dynasties as pleaseth Him best. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the "Only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" (1 Tim. 6:15). Such is the God of the Bible." A. W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God, chapter 1.

      God's sovereignty in salvation means that He saves whom He will, and those whom He saves owe nothing to anything in or of themselves. They are saved because God graciously chose them in eternity and regenerated and called them in history. They cannot even take credit for their faith because it is the gift that He Himself sovereignly bestows.
      https://www.theopedia.com/sovereignty-of-god

    2. #2
      jsimms435's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission. God works not just some things but all things according to the counsel of His own will (see Eph. 1:11). His purposes are all-inclusive and never thwarted (see Isa. 46:11); nothing takes Him by surprise. The sovereignty of God is not merely that God has the power and right to govern all things, but that He does so, always and without exception. In other words, God is not merely sovereign de jure (in principle), but sovereign de facto (in practice).

      "What do we mean by [the sovereignty of God]? We mean the supremacy of God, the kingship of God, the god-hood of God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that God is God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Most High, doing according to His will in the army of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, so that none can stay His hand or say unto Him what doest Thou? (Dan. 4:35). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Almighty, the Possessor of all power in Heaven and earth, so that none can defeat His counsels, thwart His purpose, or resist His will (Psa. 115:3). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is "The Governor among the nations" (Psa. 22:28), setting up kingdoms, overthrowing empires, and determining the course of dynasties as pleaseth Him best. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the "Only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" (1 Tim. 6:15). Such is the God of the Bible." A. W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God, chapter 1.

      God's sovereignty in salvation means that He saves whom He will, and those whom He saves owe nothing to anything in or of themselves. They are saved because God graciously chose them in eternity and regenerated and called them in history. They cannot even take credit for their faith because it is the gift that He Himself sovereignly bestows.
      https://www.theopedia.com/sovereignty-of-god
      The problem you run into is the problem of pain. Some would say why then would God permit the cancer that a 2 year old has to kill her or for a little girl to get raped by her father or an elderly couple murdered for 2 dollars. If God is sovereign like you described why would he allow that and not stop it

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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      The problem you run into is the problem of pain. Some would say why then would God permit the cancer that a 2 year old has to kill her or for a little girl to get raped by her father or an elderly couple murdered for 2 dollars. If God is sovereign like you described why would he allow that and not stop it

      Sent from my H710VL using Tapatalk
      Because of two things.
      First, God is not obligated to stop evil humans from rebelling. You may hate God for letting humans act in evil ways. I trust that even in very evil actions, God is working for good. My example is the book of Habakkuk. You really need to read it.
      Second, God uses evil to accomplish good. This is hard to fathom, but the rebellion of humanity is a part of God's good weaving of grace and mercy. God has told us that we will face many trials and sorrows. He tells us to trust him. We have two options. We can be like Jobs wife and curse God or we can be like Job and acknowledge that God brings both the good and the bad for reasons that bring glory to his name.
      What will you do when God brings such sorrow to your life? Your faith will be tested. But, take heart, Yeshua has overcome.

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    5. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Because of two things.
      First, God is not obligated to stop evil humans from rebelling. You may hate God for letting humans act in evil ways. I trust that even in very evil actions, God is working for good. My example is the book of Habakkuk. You really need to read it.
      Second, God uses evil to accomplish good. This is hard to fathom, but the rebellion of humanity is a part of God's good weaving of grace and mercy. God has told us that we will face many trials and sorrows. He tells us to trust him. We have two options. We can be like Jobs wife and curse God or we can be like Job and acknowledge that God brings both the good and the bad for reasons that bring glory to his name.
      What will you do when God brings such sorrow to your life? Your faith will be tested. But, take heart, Yeshua has overcome.
      I don't believe that even in very evil actions God is bringing about good. Romans 8:28 doesn't promise that. Sometimes evil things happen and nothing redemptive comes out of it. It part of living in a fallen, depraved society.

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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      I don't believe that even in very evil actions God is bringing about good. Romans 8:28 doesn't promise that. Sometimes evil things happen and nothing redemptive comes out of it. It part of living in a fallen, depraved society.

      Sent from my H710VL using Tapatalk
      Did you read Habakkuk chapter 1?
      Have you read Job where God ordains Job's suffering under Satan's design? Satan could not touch Job except by God's approval.
      God gives approval to every evil action by rebels against rebels. He gives approval when saints suffer evil things as well.
      God could easily extinguish all evil and establish paradise, but that is not his will at this time. We are left with a response to God's ordination. We can curse God because he has ordained pain and suffering in our lives or we can trust that the dark threads he weaves will result in a glorious tapestry that reveals the image of God in our lives.

    7. #6
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      It has been a while since I have read those sections of scripture but I have. One thing that I'm saying is that some things about God can only be understood fully in the next life. Now we see through a mirror dimly. I don't understand it but I trust God anyway

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission. God works not just some things but all things according to the counsel of His own will (see Eph. 1:11). His purposes are all-inclusive and never thwarted (see Isa. 46:11); nothing takes Him by surprise. The sovereignty of God is not merely that God has the power and right to govern all things, but that He does so, always and without exception. In other words, God is not merely sovereign de jure (in principle), but sovereign de facto (in practice).

      "What do we mean by [the sovereignty of God]? We mean the supremacy of God, the kingship of God, the god-hood of God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that God is God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Most High, doing according to His will in the army of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, so that none can stay His hand or say unto Him what doest Thou? (Dan. 4:35). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Almighty, the Possessor of all power in Heaven and earth, so that none can defeat His counsels, thwart His purpose, or resist His will (Psa. 115:3). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is "The Governor among the nations" (Psa. 22:28), setting up kingdoms, overthrowing empires, and determining the course of dynasties as pleaseth Him best. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the "Only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" (1 Tim. 6:15). Such is the God of the Bible." A. W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God, chapter 1.

      God's sovereignty in salvation means that He saves whom He will, and those whom He saves owe nothing to anything in or of themselves. They are saved because God graciously chose them in eternity and regenerated and called them in history. They cannot even take credit for their faith because it is the gift that He Himself sovereignly bestows.
      https://www.theopedia.com/sovereignty-of-god
      Well...it looks like you have found your answer on theopedia. So why ask the question herem

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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      Quote Originally Posted by meluckycharms View Post
      Well...it looks like you have found your answer on theopedia. So why ask the question herem

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
      I have shared one answer from one website. Is that the answer?

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I have shared one answer from one website. Is that the answer?
      It is an answer. But there are other possibilities.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Did you read Habakkuk chapter 1?
      Have you read Job where God ordains Job's suffering under Satan's design? Satan could not touch Job except by God's approval.
      God gives approval to every evil action by rebels against rebels. He gives approval when saints suffer evil things as well.
      God could easily extinguish all evil and establish paradise, but that is not his will at this time. We are left with a response to God's ordination. We can curse God because he has ordained pain and suffering in our lives or we can trust that the dark threads he weaves will result in a glorious tapestry that reveals the image of God in our lives.
      This of course assumes that "the satan" described in Job is in fact Lucifer (aka Satan) which is also debated.

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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