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    Christian Theology - Thread: 616 or 666?

    1. #11
      JRT is offline Rookie Member
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      The Koine Greek that Christian scripture was composed in used the Miletus number system not the Roman number system. Like the Roman system, the Miletus system used letters (Greek) to repesent numbers. This system required 27 letters to stand for numbers, Nine letters were used to represent the numbers 1, 2, 3, .... 8, 9; another nine were used for 10, 20, 30, .... 80, 90; nine more were used for 100, 200, 300, ... 800, 900. So the number 666 would consist of the three letters (chi, xi and vau) representing 600 + 60 + 6 not the DCLXVI as it would be in the Roman or Latin system. There has been much conjecture on the precise meaning of the number 666. Much is made of numerology in which words are given mystical meanings by assigning numbers to the letters. Some claim it refers to Caesar Nero (AD54 – 68) who was the first Roman emperor to seriously persecute the Christians while others suggest it was Caesar Domitian (AD81- 96) who was the emperor at the time Revelation was written. Domitian was worse than Nero as far as persecutions were concerned and he was widely believed at the time to have been a reincarnation of Nero. It could hardly represent the Roman Catholic Church or the Papacy since these institutions were centuries from being formalised. It is likely the 666 refers to the Roman Empire in some way. Incidently some people have made much of the three sixes in 666. However, 666 is a place value decimal system with Arabic numerals both of which were centuries in the future. In the Miletus system there was only the one 6. It is also interesting to note that in a few ancient manuscripts the number is 616 not 666.

    2. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      but two different numbers? It can only point to Nero just as the beast.. I mean the vatican -suggests


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      Why do you think it is Nero? Nero is going to look like a preschooler compared to the real antichrist.

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    4. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      Why do you think it is Nero? Nero is going to look like a preschooler compared to the real antichrist.
      Exactly, watch Morgan Freeman on the story of God, he visits the vatican and they briefly discuss the mark of the beast, the spokeswoman tells him that the Holy See accepts that 616 and 666 both add up to Nero the antichrist. Funny how 'the beast' hides her role in revelation by pointing the finger at Nero.

      My understanding is simple, check it out...
      The mark of the beast is the opposite of having the Mark of God, you cant have both. Is God in your heart and mind/forehead daily? In your works/hands? That's the mark of God! Thank the Lord that we are free from the mark of the beast cause we have already the permanent mark of God!

      But here's a video directed to a catholic audience on why Nero can not be the anti-christ. (My gut tells me that they changed early transcripts and put 616 so people could point to Nero when not too long after protestants pointed the finger at the Pope)


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    5. #14
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      catholic.com
      Excerpt:

      Full Question

      What is "the mark of the beast"? So many people said that once you receive it your name will be erased from the book of life, but isn't God's mercy and love greater than that?

      Answer

      [The beast] forced all the people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to be given a stamped image on their right hands or their foreheads,*so that no one could buy or sell except one who had the stamped image of the beastís name or the number that stood for its name.

      Wisdom is needed here; one who understands can calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number that stands for a person. His number is six hundred and sixty-six*(Rev. 13:16-18).

      The Book of Revelation makes great use of symbolic imagery and theological themes. It used the events contemporaneous to its composition to deliver a message about the ultimate triumph of Christ. The beast symbolizes the various Roman emperors who persecuted the early Christians but mainly is a symbol of Caesar Nero (whose name in Hebrew has the numerical value of 666). The so-called "mark of the beast" is presumed by most scholars to allude to the coins of the Roman Empire that bore the image of the emperor.

      The Book of Revelation states quite clearly that this mark was forced upon all the people;*there is no mention of it being voluntary. The only thing that Revelation mentions regarding the Book of Life and the beast is that those who choose to worship the beast do not have their names in the Book of Life. However, this is quite distinct from the forced mark of the beast.



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    6. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      The Book of Revelation states quite clearly that this mark was forced upon all the people;*there is no mention of it being voluntary. The only thing that Revelation mentions regarding the Book of Life and the beast is that those who choose to worship the beast do not have their names in the Book of Life. However, this is quite distinct from the forced mark of the beast.
      The beast forced all to take the mark - it was technically voluntary in that those who refused would simply not be able to buy or sell, and would be put to death if found. In that regard it is still notionally voluntary, just like obeying the law of the land is arguably voluntary - you just go to jail if you decide not to obey.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    7. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      The beast forced all to take the mark - it was technically voluntary in that those who refused would simply not be able to buy or sell, and would be put to death if found. In that regard it is still notionally voluntary, just like obeying the law of the land is arguably voluntary - you just go to jail if you decide not to obey.
      That's what I get out of it too.
      The whole site is a Catholic q and a.


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