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    Christian Theology - Thread: The 'I agree with the Pope on this' thread

    1. #21
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      Some thoughts.....


      1. The Bible indicates that the Angels celebrated our Lord's birth. So did the Shepherds. So did the Wise Men. I find NOTHING in Scripture that clearly indicates that all these sinned and offended God by celebrating the Coming of Our Lord.


      2. The Bible never records the EXACT DATE of His birth. While I'd not place too much importance on that, maybe it wasn't recorded because the DATE isn't what matters, the EVENT is what matters. The Shepherds.... the Angels.... the Wise Men celebrated the Birth of Our Lord, not a date.


      3. No one has been able to determine the actual date to supply what God in Scripture did not. Frankly, some GUESSES seem plausible but since the point is not the DATE but the CHRIST, it just doesn't matter what DATE is the actual, technical anniversary.... the anniversary isn't the point, Christ is the point. Since no one has been able to pin down the actual anniversary date of His birth (as if that mattered), then any is as good as any other. We do know that early Christians celebrated that birth on a very wide variety of dates, but eventually uniformity was desired and a date was chosen in the 4th Century on which all agreed henceforth the celebration would happen - universally. NOT because it was determine this was the best guess as to the anniversary but simply for the sake of order and commonality.


      4. If some think the Shepherds, Angels and Wise Men were sinful and detestable and condemnable for celebrating Jesus' birth - and therefore they won't celebrate it either, I say: Fine (their choice) But I disagree. If they can prove the actual anniversary date..... and present biblical evidence that we are commanded to celebrate it only on that date.... that's fine, too. But that hasn't happened in 2000 years and I doubt any are holding their breath.


      5. If Christians REALLY want to get all upset and obsessed over something, maybe they'd be more useful if they spoke up against child abuse or war or the decline in the percentage of humans who identify themselves as Christians. Seems to ME there is a LONG LIST of things they could get upset about .... rather than joining with the Angels, Shepherds and Wise Men in celebrating the Coming of the Christ. But that's just me.



      - Josiah




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      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      I would say everyday. Especially considering a Male child is born every day of the yr. And is circumcised on his eight day.
      Sorry, but that is not an answer or an alternative.

      The liars who have dared to impose a calendar day as Yeshua's, OUR LORD and SAVIORs birthday.
      Having no resemblance of the Truth, have done enough damage to the World.
      And that's a reply that attempts to change the subject.

    3. #23
      DHoffmann's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post

      2. The Bible never records the EXACT DATE of His birth. While I'd not place too much importance on that, maybe it wasn't recorded because the DATE isn't what matters, the EVENT is what matters. The Shepherds.... the Angels.... the Wise Men celebrated the Birth of Our Lord, not a date.

      .
      Exactly dates aren't important, the gregorian calendar was introduced later and if I'm not mistaken, dates were more or less observed on solstice or astronomical seasons in ancient days and Jewish holidays were probably stamped 'around' the time of OT events and in that season.
      What date did David kill Goliath? What date did the flood end? What date did Moses part the red sea?


      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

    4. #24
      pinacled's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Sorry, but that is not an answer or an alternative.


      And that's a reply that attempts to change the subject.
      Then perhaps you should be careful as to whether you follow the Holy One of Israel instruction.
      And what day was it that our Lord of Lights resurrected?
      Oil for a lamp to 5 wise virgins.


      But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”



      John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

      John 6:27"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

      John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
      From Revelation which Jesus gave to John:
      Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
      Which echos Isaiah 55:1:
      Isaiah 55:1 "Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.

    5. #25
      pinacled's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      Some thoughts.....


      1. The Bible indicates that the Angels celebrated our Lord's birth. So did the Shepherds. So did the Wise Men. I find NOTHING in Scripture that clearly indicates that all these sinned and offended God by celebrating the Coming of Our Lord.


      2. The Bible never records the EXACT DATE of His birth. While I'd not place too much importance on that, maybe it wasn't recorded because the DATE isn't what matters, the EVENT is what matters. The Shepherds.... the Angels.... the Wise Men celebrated the Birth of Our Lord, not a date.


      3. No one has been able to determine the actual date to supply what God in Scripture did not. Frankly, some GUESSES seem plausible but since the point is not the DATE but the CHRIST, it just doesn't matter what DATE is the actual, technical anniversary.... the anniversary isn't the point, Christ is the point. Since no one has been able to pin down the actual anniversary date of His birth (as if that mattered), then any is as good as any other. We do know that early Christians celebrated that birth on a very wide variety of dates, but eventually uniformity was desired and a date was chosen in the 4th Century on which all agreed henceforth the celebration would happen - universally. NOT because it was determine this was the best guess as to the anniversary but simply for the sake of order and commonality.


      4. If some think the Shepherds, Angels and Wise Men were sinful and detestable and condemnable for celebrating Jesus' birth - and therefore they won't celebrate it either, I say: Fine (their choice) But I disagree. If they can prove the actual anniversary date..... and present biblical evidence that we are commanded to celebrate it only on that date.... that's fine, too. But that hasn't happened in 2000 years and I doubt any are holding their breath.


      5. If Christians REALLY want to get all upset and obsessed over something, maybe they'd be more useful if they spoke up against child abuse or war or the decline in the percentage of humans who identify themselves as Christians. Seems to ME there is a LONG LIST of things they could get upset about .... rather than joining with the Angels, Shepherds and Wise Men in celebrating the Coming of the Christ. But that's just me.



      - Josiah




      .
      If it a date wasnt so important, then ask why someone dared to mark a calendar day

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Exactly dates aren't important, the gregorian calendar was introduced later and if I'm not mistaken, dates were more or less observed on solstice or astronomical seasons in ancient days and Jewish holidays were probably stamped 'around' the time of OT events and in that season.
      What date did David kill Goliath? What date did the flood end? What date did Moses part the red sea?


      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
      Right you are about dates. And how many have heeded to Moses being read.
      You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.
      Waters and a Dove?
      Noah and his children prayed constantly, and at last the flood quieted down. A wind blew over the earth and the Ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat, after it had been afloat for seven months.
      After another seven days, the winged messenger was sent out again and returned no more. A feeling of gladness must in truth have filled Noah’s heart, for in the beginning of the first month,
      http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...-the-Flood.htm

      “Let it be so now, Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness” in this way. Then John permitted Him. 16As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

    7. #27
      DHoffmann's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      If it a date wasnt so important, then ask why someone dared to mark a calendar day
      Remember the Sabbath day

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      Then perhaps you should be careful as to whether you follow the Holy One of Israel instruction.
      And what day was it that our Lord of Lights resurrected?
      Oil for a lamp to 5 wise virgins.


      But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”



      John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

      John 6:27"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

      John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
      From Revelation which Jesus gave to John:
      Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
      Which echos Isaiah 55:1:
      Isaiah 55:1 "Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.
      Got anything that relates to what I wrote??

      Or, for that matter, to what DHoffmann wrote?

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Remember the Sabbath day

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
      Remember the Sabbath Day?

      Yes, and Who was it that Bought us and our Freedom?
      What was it ole paul said about being slaves to the Holy One Of Yisrael?
      not by way of eye service, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.

      Jesus replied, A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here.…
      The time the people of Isra’el lived in Egypt was 430 years. 41 At the end of 430 years to the day, all the divisions of Adonai left the land of Egypt. 42 This was a night when Adonai kept vigil to bring them out of the land of Egypt, and this same night continues to be a night when Adonai keeps vigil for all the people of Isra’el through all their generations.

      43 Adonai said to Moshe and Aharon, “This is the regulation for the Pesach lamb: no foreigner is to eat it. 44 But if anyone has a slave he bought for money, when you have circumcised him, he may eat it. 45 Neither a traveler nor a hired servant may eat it. 46 It is to be eaten in one house. You are not to take any of the meat outside the house, and you are not to break any of its bones. 47 The whole community of Isra’el is to keep it. 48 If a foreigner staying with you wants to observe Adonai’s Pesach, all his males must be circumcised. Then he may take part and observe it; he will be like a citizen of the land. But no uncircumcised person is to eat it. 49 The same teaching is to apply equally to the citizen and to the foreigner living among you.”

      50 All the people of Isra’el did just as Adonai had ordered Moshe and Aharon. 51 On that very day, Adonai brought the people of Isra’el out of the land of Egypt by their divisions.
      Last edited by pinacled; 12-30-2017 at 04:50 PM.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      Right you are about dates. And how many have heeded to Moses being read.
      You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.
      Waters and a Dove?
      Noah and his children prayed constantly, and at last the flood quieted down. A wind blew over the earth and the Ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat, after it had been afloat for seven months.
      After another seven days, the winged messenger was sent out again and returned no more. A feeling of gladness must in truth have filled Noah’s heart, for in the beginning of the first month,
      http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...-the-Flood.htm

      “Let it be so now, Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness” in this way. Then John permitted Him. 16As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
      7 is not a date however.
      One could speculate, lets say that the first day of Genesis is Sunday the 1rst, on the 6th day man was created and were told to observe the seventh day, 7 days later God is heard walking through the garden and Adam was hidden, we could speculate then that the fall began on Friday the 13th. The year and month tho?
      Our Pentecostal preacher 'assured' every one that it's okay to have a Christmas tree even tho it has druid origins, Jesus is the reason for the season.
      Symbolically the world had grown cold, Jesus is born and the days start to become longer and spring comes along and everything is reborn... symbology and parables are part of his ministry and a date such as Christmas is appropriate to officially 'remind' the masses of Christ, Christmas. Holiday/Holy day observance, Jesus celebrated on certain days as well.

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
      Last edited by DHoffmann; 12-30-2017 at 04:45 PM.

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