Some believe this verse....

Andrew · Dec 9, 2017

.... proves the early Christian belief of "reincarnation". Now I have no Idea what they believed in that blurry time ago but I have heard time and time again that "Christianity used to teach reincarnation", the extreme side would argue that the death and rebirth foreshadows the resurrection in a new body and ascension into a new heaven (new perspective of Heaven on a new Earth) and that we are reincarnated multiple times until the final day of Judgment and our work on earth is complete.
I dont have much information on this other than hearing about it on a video and then seeking out its resource and reference web pages. So take this all with a grain of salt. Christians back then had it bad, the emperor had to ban Christians from killing themselves in the common area or even killing their own family lest the roman soldiers took them to be persecuted.
But I have heard throughout my time studying Christianity that they used to believe in being born again into a new Earth (as a new born child) with a new Heaven (a new perspective/understanding of Heaven) So that when they died, they would be reborn in different bodies and ascend into a completely entirely different Earth with a new Sky in the "Heavenly Universe" all being the same earth but just perceived with new eyes and perspective towards it (new to them) until the final judgment.
My guess is that these beliefs belong to the gnostic or heathen Christians that had flown a bit far over the coo coos nest, but others will argue that reincarnation is true and because of this scriptural knowledge the Roman Church planned to run the world by this knowledge by keeping them ignorant of it, taking away their bibles and to perpetuate all economic militant and religious strong holds globally under one continuous world power.
This verse is what I come across in google search for :early christianity reincarnation beliefs:
"Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus he that believeth on me shall never thirst."
John 6:31-35

So here is where reincarnation is applied to Christianity... (According to google)

"Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat."

(Moses gave our Fathers manna to eat)

--------------------
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven."

(Moses gave YOU not that bread from heaven; but by my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven)
--------------
Theory goes that these followers of Abraham's descent speak about Moses giving their Fathers manna to eat.
Jesus says it was not Moses who gave YOU the bread from heaven but my Father.....
So here in the conspiracy realm we see Jesus referring to the 'fathers' in Moses's time as "you/descendants of your fathers"
As if the descendents WERE their fathers in a past life...

Lame conspiracy theory type junk I know, just wanted to analyze how easy these ideas are brought in for the young babes in Christ to choke on, I heard this theory of the truth of reincarnation and the religious powers controlling it back when I was an athiest and now I can read the source and understand without any reproach...

Sorry if I just wasted your time, something that used to bug me...

......
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."
John 6:31-35

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Albion · Dec 9, 2017

There are several hints of recincarnation to be found in Scripture, but even if we're understanding them correctly they speak more to popular Jewish notions at that time than to anything we should consider instru tional for us. The most compelling of them, from a logical POV, probably is the passage in which a blind man is brought to Jesus and the people ask Jesus "What sin of this man or of his Father caused him to be born blind?"

What sin committed by this man could have resulted in him being born blind except in a previous life?

But there is nothing to indicate that Jesus bought into that notion which, after all, reflects what those Jews may have thought theoretically possible, not Jesus. Or, perhaps they actually were just putting something to Jesus in order to test him, and even they did not believe what they were asking him about.

It's a weak if intriguing piece of evidence...and so are the several other verses in Scripture that reincarnation-advocates think point to the truth of reincarnation. Against that we have a lot of evidence from the Bible that reincarnation is NOT true.

Imalive · Dec 9, 2017

Albion said:
There are several hints of recincarnation to be found in Scripture, but even if we're understanding them correctly they speak more to popular Jewish notions at that time than to anything we should consider instru tional for us. The most compelling of them, from a logical POV, probably is the passage in which a blind man is brought to Jesus and the people ask Jesus "What sin of this man or of his Father caused him to be born blind?"

What sin committed by this man could have resulted in him being born blind except in a previous life?

But there is nothing to indicate that Jesus bought into that notion which, after all, reflects what those Jews may have thought theoretically possible, not Jesus. Or, perhaps they actually were just putting something to Jesus in order to test him, and even they did not believe what they were asking him about.

It's a weak if intriguing piece of evidence...and so are the several other verses in Scripture that reincarnation-advocates think point to the truth of reincarnation. Against that we have a lot of evidence from the Bible that reincarnation is NOT true.

Nice verse. You can make from verses what you like.
Yay!! Proof that the Jews believed in the Augustine sin nature thing!

Albion · Dec 9, 2017

Imalive said:
Nice verse. You can make from verses what you like.
Yay!! Proof that the Jews believed in the Augustine sin nature thing!

Oh, I dont know about that. Most Christians believe in Original sin, and I dont know any who think that it inflicts physical ailments on a fetus, so that probably holds true for OT Jews as well. This verse wouldn't prove that they did, anyway.

Imalive · Dec 9, 2017

Albion said:
Oh, I dont know about that. Most Christians believe in Original sin, and I dont know any who think that it inflicts physical ailments on a fetus, so that probably holds true for OT Jews as well. This verse wouldn't prove that they did, anyway.

I always hear that they don't believe that. It's weird. Never thought of it. Who sinned? He was blind from birth.
Nasty thing to say btw. I once had a preacher who just recovered from a heart disease and he was crying in church, cause after his wife died, he had a new girlfriend and then he got a heart attack or something and ppl had said: oh he must have sinned!

Albion · Dec 9, 2017

Lest we lose sight of the point there, it was that he couldn't have sinned before his birth (unlike the pastor in your story) unless it was in a prior life.

Imalive · Dec 9, 2017

Albion said:
Lest we lose sight of the point there, it was that he couldn't have sinned before his birth (unlike the pastor in your story) unless it was in a prior life.

But they didnt believe that. I'd think they thought he sinned before birth.

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....e-blind-man-could-have-sinned-before-his-birt

Albion · Dec 9, 2017

Imalive said:
But they didnt believe that. I'd think they thought he sinned before birth.

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....e-blind-man-could-have-sinned-before-his-birt

In other words, you are persuaded that they did believe in reincarnation?

Andrew · Dec 9, 2017

Imalive said:
I always hear that they don't believe that. It's weird. Never thought of it. Who sinned? He was blind from birth.
Nasty thing to say btw. I once had a preacher who just recovered from a heart disease and he was crying in church, cause after his wife died, he had a new girlfriend and then he got a heart attack or something and ppl had said: oh he must have sinned!

Thats messed up, so he deserved it? sounds like that other thing... karma

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Andrew · Dec 9, 2017

Imalive · Dec 9, 2017

Albion said:
In other words, you are persuaded that they did believe in reincarnation?

No I dont think so. His discipels asked that, not some Jewish kabbalah mystics. Jacob betrayed his brother in the whomb. Guess they thought he sinned in the whomb.

Albion · Dec 9, 2017

Imalive said:
Jacob betrayed his brother in the whomb. Guess they thought he sinned in the whomb.

That would be a possibility, but this shows how thin the "proof texts " that are available to Christian reincarnationists actually are. Yes, there are some verses that may be tantalizing, but when we weigh what the Scriptures say about Hell against the hints that might refer to reincarnation...people favoring reincarnation can make only a weak case.

Andrew · Dec 9, 2017

There is some mystery in these kinds of paragraphs, to understand them you sure do have a heck load of Jewish heritage, history and culture, possible even law to study or we gentiles will have a difficult time making any sense of them

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NewCreation435 · Dec 10, 2017

DHoffmann said:
.... proves the early Christian belief of "reincarnation". Now I have no Idea what they believed in that blurry time ago but I have heard time and time again that "Christianity used to teach reincarnation", the extreme side would argue that the death and rebirth foreshadows the resurrection in a new body and ascension into a new heaven (new perspective of Heaven on a new Earth) and that we are reincarnated multiple times until the final day of Judgment and our work on earth is complete.
I dont have much information on this other than hearing about it on a video and then seeking out its resource and reference web pages. So take this all with a grain of salt. Christians back then had it bad, the emperor had to ban Christians from killing themselves in the common area or even killing their own family lest the roman soldiers took them to be persecuted.
But I have heard throughout my time studying Christianity that they used to believe in being born again into a new Earth (as a new born child) with a new Heaven (a new perspective/understanding of Heaven) So that when they died, they would be reborn in different bodies and ascend into a completely entirely different Earth with a new Sky in the "Heavenly Universe" all being the same earth but just perceived with new eyes and perspective towards it (new to them) until the final judgment.
My guess is that these beliefs belong to the gnostic or heathen Christians that had flown a bit far over the coo coos nest, but others will argue that reincarnation is true and because of this scriptural knowledge the Roman Church planned to run the world by this knowledge by keeping them ignorant of it, taking away their bibles and to perpetuate all economic militant and religious strong holds globally under one continuous world power.
This verse is what I come across in google search for :early christianity reincarnation beliefs:
"Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus he that believeth on me shall never thirst."
John 6:31-35

So here is where reincarnation is applied to Christianity... (According to google)

"Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat."

(Moses gave our Fathers manna to eat)

--------------------
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven."

(Moses gave YOU not that bread from heaven; but by my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven)
--------------
Theory goes that these followers of Abraham's descent speak about Moses giving their Fathers manna to eat.
Jesus says it was not Moses who gave YOU the bread from heaven but my Father.....
So here in the conspiracy realm we see Jesus referring to the 'fathers' in Moses's time as "you/descendants of your fathers"
As if the descendents WERE their fathers in a past life...

Lame conspiracy theory type junk I know, just wanted to analyze how easy these ideas are brought in for the young babes in Christ to choke on, I heard this theory of the truth of reincarnation and the religious powers controlling it back when I was an athiest and now I can read the source and understand without any reproach...

Sorry if I just wasted your time, something that used to bug me...

......
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."
John 6:31-35

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I wonder how they interpret Hebrews 9:27 then?

Andrew · Dec 10, 2017

jsimms435 said:
I wonder how they interpret Hebrews 9:27 then?

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Hebrews 9:27-28

I uphold that Christ made perfect sense when he told them "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world" because Moses did not give them bread from Heaven as he did their Fathers, but his Father gives them true bread from heaven. He seems to be redirecting them through his answer, that the true bread IS given unto them now by God from Heaven.
If you are referring to them as the 'believers in reincarnation' then the verse you gave should have them reconsider.
Interesting verse btw.
Does that mean that after death all will be judged and because we have sought him we will be clear of sin (for he beared the sins of many) and be found righteous before God and enter into salvation?

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Albion · Dec 15, 2017

DHoffmann said:
Does that mean that after death all will be judged and because we have sought him we will be clear of sin (for he beared the sins of many) and be found righteous before God and enter into salvation?

Will we all be judged? Yes.

Will those who have sought him be cleared of sin? That depends on what "sought him" means.

psalms 91 · Dec 15, 2017

We wiill all appear before the Judgement seat of Christ or the Great White Throne Judgement so yes all will be judged

Andrew · Dec 15, 2017

Im using that certain verse to simplify my understanding of salvation, you seek and you shall find/have!

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MennoSota · Dec 15, 2017

It's hard to imagine that anyone pulls reincarnation from this verse.
"Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat."
It reminds me that there are a lot of wack-a-doodle cults formed from moronic reading of God's word. God gives them over to delusion.

Some believe this verse....

Andrew

Matt 18:15

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