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    Denomination & Faith Movement Discussions - Thread: What do Lutherans believe?

    1. #1
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      What do Lutherans believe?

      Lamm suggested that a thread be started to look at what Lutherans believe. Since I am not a lutheran I will not try to tell people what Lutherans believe because I would rather hear/see them tell others what they believe and hold dear to themselves as faithful Lutherans seeking to serve God and benefit their neighbours with the truths that they believe their Church has revealed to them through its pastors teaching faithfully what the gospel says.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    2. #2
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      These will help....


      http://bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php


      https://www.lcms.org/about/beliefs


      If you have any questions, I recommend you ask.





      Some comments....


      1. As with Catholics, it's difficult to say what ALL Lutherans "believe." There are a LOT of them. It's easier to say what Lutheranism officially/formally teaches. But since nearly all Lutherans at their Confirmation note their agreement with the Catechism, that would be a good place to look for common denominators (a link to it is above).


      2. There are over 300 Lutheran denominations in the world mostly because very, very few are multinational (most are limited to one country). As we see with many faith communities, there is a conservative/moderate divide in many countries. In the USA, the more moderate denomination is the ELCA (created by nearly 200 years of mergers; this group is primarily Swedish/Danish/Norwegian in heriitage). There are several that are conservative, the two largest being the LCMS and WELS. The LCMS (several here at CH belong to congregations that are members of this denomination) and WELS are both of German heritage. In Australia, the conservative group is "The Lutheran Church of Australia." While OFFICIALLY they hold to the same teachings, and they are largely in agreement, there are differences. It would be impossible in this thread to note all the various differences between the 300+ Lutheran denominations around the world, although nearly all do subscribe to the Lutheran Confessions and nearly all Confirmations of laity involved a subscription to the Catechism (referenced above).


      3. The Lutheran Reformation was a conservative one, quite unlike the revolutions that followed. So, Lutheranism often looks and sounds pretty Catholic. Lutheranism is more simple (for example, Luther's Catechism is 12 pages long, the 1994 edition of the RCC's Catechism is 800 pages long, although it's not an apples-to-apples comparison). Lutheranism ALLOWS a number of views (for example regarding Mary) that Catholicism MANDATES. Lutherans often conclude that the RC Denomination "says too much" and "dogmatizes too much". Lutherans affirm MYSTERY (a word they use a lot) eager to affirm what God says but willing to "let God have the last word" and to accept "tensions." Lutherans ask questions but don't appoint self alone to "answer" them and require God to agree. There is a deep sense of humility and awe in Lutheranism.


      4. Luther had no intention of splitting the RC Denomination or in creating a separate denomination; he simply wanted to discuss some issues and to reform some abuses (which 500 years later, Catholics are finally admitted existed and Luther was right to note). Luther, however, did question some teachings which were not dogmas at the time (and thus could be debated) these included Papal Infallibility, Transubstantiation (rather than Real Presence), and the RCC's claim that it itself exclusively is unaccountable for its unique teachings. Later Purgatory was also questioned. And while Luther did not originally think the Gospel was contrary to the RCC's teaching, the RCC chose that to be the centerpiece of its protest of Luther and the issue over which it excommunicated Luther and split itself - Luther arguing that Jesus is the Savior and thus saves us (His works being the works which justify in the narrow sense) and the RCC now officially protesting that actually Jesus doesn't do it but rather it is a synergistic, cooperative, long-time process (continuing into Purgatory) whereby self saves self albeit with much help from the RC Denomination. Luther affirmed MUCH (indeed, the overwhelming majority) of what the RC Denomination officially taught AT THAT TIME and had few problems with Catholic customs (Latin worship and prohibiting clergy from marriage being among the few he disagreed with - neither dogmas at the time).



      Questions regarding Doctrine are welcomed....



      Soli Deo Gloria



      - Josiah




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 12-04-2017 at 09:47 AM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    3. Likes Confessional Lutheran liked this post
    4. #3
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      Be sweet @Josiah, do the "in your own words" thing and set it up like a chapter in a book about one topic. Then extra topics can be done. I will click the links and see what's what but for the benefit of everybody a little post on each topic that seems important one topic at a time would be helpful. If you are willing.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    5. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah


      These will help....


      http://bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php


      https://www.lcms.org/about/beliefs


      If you have any questions, I recommend you ask.






      Some comments....


      1. As with Catholics, it's difficult to say what ALL Lutherans "believe." There are a LOT of them. It's easier to say what Lutheranism officially/formally teaches. But since nearly all Lutherans at their Confirmation note their agreement with the Catechism, that would be a good place to look for common denominators (a link to it is above).


      2. There are over 300 Lutheran denominations in the world mostly because very, very few are multinational (most are limited to one country). As we see with many faith communities, there is a conservative/moderate divide in many countries. In the USA, the more moderate denomination is the ELCA(created by nearly 200 years of mergers; this group is primarily Swedish/Danish/Norwegian in heriitage). There are several that are conservative, the two largest being the LCMS and WELS. The LCMS(several here at CHbelong to congregations that are members of this denomination) and WELS are both of German heritage. In Australia, the conservative group is "The Lutheran Church of Australia." While OFFICIALLY they hold to the same teachings, and they are largely in agreement, there are differences would be impossible in this thread to note all the various differences between the 300+ Lutheran denominations around the world, although nearly all do subscribe to the Lutheran Confessions and nearly all Confirmations of laity involved a subscription to the Catechism (referenced above).


      3. The Lutheran Reformation was a conservative one, quite unlike the revolutions that followed. So, Lutheranism often looks and sounds pretty Catholic. Lutheranism is more simple (for example, Luther's Catechism is 12 pages long, the 1994 edition of the RCC's Catechism is 800 pages long, although it's not an apples-to-apples comparison). Lutheranism ALLOWS a number of views (for example regarding Mary) that Catholicism MANDATES. Lutherans often conclude that the RC Denomination "says too much" and "dogmatizes too much". Lutherans affirm MYSTERY (a word they use a lot) eager to affirm what God says but willing to "let God have the last word" and to accept "tensions." Lutherans ask questions but don't appoint self alone to "answer" them and require God to agree. There is a deep sense of humility and awe in Lutheranism.


      4. Luther had no intention of splitting the RC Denomination or in creating a separate denomination; he simply wanted to discuss some issues and to reform some abuses (which 500 years later, Catholics are finally admitted existed and Luther was right to note). Luther, however, did question some teachings which were not dogmas at the time (and thus could be debated) these included Papal Infallibility, Transubstantiation (rather than Real Presence), and the RCC's claim that it itself exclusively is unaccountable for its unique teachings. Later Purgatory was also questioned. And while Luther did not originally think the Gospel was contrary to the RCC's teaching, the RCCchose that to be the centerpiece of its protest of Luther and the issue over which it excommunicated Luther and split itself - Luther arguing that Jesus is the Savior and thus saves us (His works being the works which justify in the narrow sense) and the RCC now officially protesting that actually Jesus doesn't do it but rather it is a synergistic, cooperative, long-time process (continuing into Purgatory) whereby self saves self albeit with much help from the RC Denomination. Luther affirmed MUCH (indeed, the overwhelming majority) of what the RC Denomination officially taught AT THAT TIME and had few problems with Catholic customs (Latin worship and prohibiting clergy from marriage being among the few he disagreed with - neither dogmas at the time).



      Questions regarding Doctrine are welcomed....



      Soli Deo Gloria


      .

      do the "in your own words" thing and set it up like a chapter in a book about one topic. Then extra topics can be done. I will click the links and see what's what but for the benefit of everybody a little post on each topic that seems important one topic at a time would be helpful. If you are willing.

      If you have any questions, I suggest you ask.



      - Josiah (former Catholic, now LCMS Lutheran)




      .
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    6. Likes Confessional Lutheran liked this post
    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      If you have any questions, I suggest you ask.
      - Josiah (former Catholic, now LCMS Lutheran)
      Okay, what do Lutherans believe about the holy scriptures, the canon, inspiration, authority, role in forming doctrine; something along the lines of a short tract commenting these things and how confessional Lutherans see the changes (if any) that non-confessional Lutherans make in their summary of beliefs about holy scripture. As a basic guideline I am already fairly familiar with the WCF on scripture and how conservative Presbyterians view the teachings and beliefs of 'liberal' Presbyterians on this subject.

      Just for information the WCF says this on scripture, feel free not to read it if it looks irrelevant to what you want to say and what you think is important.

      Chapter I
      Of the Holy Scripture


      I. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary; those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.

      II. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testament, which are these: Of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi. Of the New Testament: The Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistles to the Romans, Corinthians I, Corinthians II, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians I , Thessalonians II , To Timothy I , To Timothy II, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, The Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation of John. All which are given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life.

      III. The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the Church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.

      IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.

      V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture. And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.

      VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word: and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.

      VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all: yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.

      VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical; so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them. But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner; and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.

      IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.

      X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.

      By the way, I welcome comment from other Lutherans too. Lamm, Confessional Lutheran, and any other Lutherans or people thinking of becoming Lutheran who want to comment
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Okay, what do Lutherans
      As I stressed to you, it is impossible to say what every single one of the 75 million Lutherans believe about things. I can only comment on what Lutheranism offficially teaches.

      To the question of Scriptures, I already provided that information. But in addition to the extensive information offered in the links above, I'll comment:

      CANON:

      Unlike the RC Denomination (first in the 15th century, dogmatically in the 16th), the Anglican, the LDS and the various Reformed denominations, Lutheranism has never dogmatically declared what is and is not canonical Scripture. Luther's view was that this is not something that he personally or any Lutheran denomination individually could declare, this would require a true Ecumenical Council (the last ending around 800 AD, none of which took up this topic). Functionally, Lutherans embrace the 66 ecumenically accepted books as fully canonical and leaves open the question of the several DEUTERO canonical books ("Deutero" meaning "secondary" or "lesser" or "under"). Lutherans use, quote and read from DEUTERO books but don't use them EXCLUSIVELY to norm dogma. Luther's own translation of the Bible from the Hebrew and Greek into German had one MORE book in it than the later official RCC tome created by the Council of Trent in the mid 16th Century, but the same number of books typically in Catholic tomes of his day (which included the Epistle to the Leodiceans which Luther removed - the "book Luther removed from the Bible" that Catholics still are complaining about). But Lutheranism has NEVER officially said a word about whether the books Luther personally chose to include in his translation are or are not canonical.


      SCRIPTURE:

      In addition to the OFFICIAL teachings provided in the link above (what can be said of Lutheranism), I offer the following from the LCMS (this would not necessarily be exactly as all 300+ Lutheran denominations would put this, again, for that, see the Official teachings links above):


      Holy Scripture



      The Inspiration of Scripture

      We believe, teach and confess that all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit and that God is therefore the true Author of every word of Scripture. We acknowledge that there is a qualitative difference between the inspired witness of Holy Scripture in all its parts and words and the witness of every other form of human expression, making the Bible a unique book.

      We therefore reject the following views:

      That the Holy Scriptures are inspired only in the sense that all Christians are “inspired” to con*fess the lordship of Jesus Christ.
      That the Holy Spirit did not inspire the actual words of the Biblical authors but merely provid*ed these men with special guidance.
      That only those matters in Holy Scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit which directly per*tain to Jesus Christ and man’s salvation.
      That noncanonical writings in the Christian tradition can be regarded as “inspired” in the same sense as Holy Scripture.
      That portions of the New Testament witness to Jesus Christ contain imaginative additions, which had their origin in the early Christian community and do not present actual facts.



      The Purpose of Scripture

      We believe that all Scripture bears witness to Jesus Christ and that its primary purpose is to make men wise unto salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. We therefore affirm that the Scriptures are right*ly used only when they are read from the perspective of justification by faith and the proper distinction between Law and Gospel.

      Since the saving work of Jesus Christ was accomplished through His personal entrance into our history and His genuinely historical life, death and resurrection, we acknowledge that the recognition of the soteriological purpose of Scripture in no sense permits us to call into question or deny the historicity or factuality of matters recorded in the Bible.

      We therefore reject the following views:

      That knowing the facts and data presented in the Scripture, without relating them to Jesus Christ and His work of salvation, represents an adequate approach to Holy Scripture.
      That the Old Testament, read on its own terms, does not bear witness to Jesus Christ.
      That it is permissible to reject the historicity of events or the occurrence of miracles recorded in the Scriptures so long as there is no confusion of Law and Gospel.
      That recognition of the primary purpose of Scripture makes it irrelevant whether such questions of fact as the following are answered in the affirmative: Were Adam and Eve real historical indi*viduals? Did Israel cross the Red Sea on dry land? Did the brazen serpent miracle actually take place? Was Jesus really born of a virgin? Did Jesus perform all the miracles attributed to Him? Did Jesus’ resurrection actually involve the return to life of His dead body?



      .

      .... continues in next post....




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 12-04-2017 at 10:46 AM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    9. #7
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      .... continues from above....





      The Gospel and Holy Scripture (Material and Formal Principles)

      We believe, teach and confess that the Gospel of the gracious justification of the sinner through faith in Jesus Christ is not only the chief doctrine of Holy Scripture and a basic presupposition for the inter*pretation of Scripture, but is the heart and center of our Christian faith and theology (material princi*ple). We also believe, teach, and confess that only “the Word of God shall establish articles of faith” (SA, II, ii, 15), and that “the prophetic and apostolic writings of the Old and New Testaments are the only rule and norm according to which all doctrines and teachers alike must be appraised and judged” (FC, Ep, Rule and Norm, .) (formal principle). The Gospel, which is the center of our theology, is the Gospel to which the Scriptures bear witness, while the Scriptures from which we derive our theology direct us steadfastly to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

      We reject the following distortions of the relationship between the Gospel and the Bible (the mate*rial and formal principles):

      That acceptance of the Bible as such, rather than the Gospel, is the heart and center of Christian faith and theology, and the way to eternal salvation.
      That the Gospel, rather than Scripture, is the norm for appraising and judging all doctrines and teachers (as, for example, when a decision on the permissibility of ordaining women into the pastoral office is made on the basis of the “Gospel” rather than on the teaching of Scripture as such).
      That the historicity or facticity of certain Biblical accounts (such as the Flood or the Fall) may be questioned, provided this does not distort the gospel.
      That Christians need not accept matters taught in the Scriptures that are not a part of the “Gospel.”



      The Authority of Scripture

      We believe, teach and confess that because the Scriptures have God as their author, they possess both the divine power to make men wise unto salvation through faith in Jesus Christ (causative authority), as well as the divine authority to serve as the church’s sole standard of doctrine and life (normative authority). We recognize that the authority of Scripture can be accepted only through faith and not merely by rational demonstration. As men of faith, we affirm not only that Holy Scripture is powerful and efficacious, but also that it is “the only judge, rule, and norm according to which, as the only touchstone, all doctrines should and must be understood, and judged as good or evil, right or wrong.” {"Sola Scriptura") (FC, Ep, Rule and Norm, 7)

      We therefore reject the following views:

      That the authority of Scripture is limited to its efficacy in bringing men to salvation in Jesus Christ.
      That the authority of Scripture has reference only to what the Scriptures do (as means of grace) rather than to what they are (as the inspired Word of God).
      That the Scriptures are authoritative for the doctrine and life of the church, not because of their character as the inspired and inerrant Word of God, but because they are the oldest available written sources for the history of ancient Israel and for the life and message of Jesus Christ, or because they were written by the chosen and appointed leaders of Israel and of the early church, or because the church declared them to be canonical.
      That the Christian community in every age is directly inspired by the Holy Spirit and is there*fore free to go beyond the doctrine of the prophets and apostles in determining the content of certain aspects of its faith and witness.



      The Canonical Text of Scripture

      We believe, teach and confess that the authoritative Word for the church today is the canonical Word, not precanonical sources, forms or traditions, however useful the investigation of these possibilities may on occasion be for a clearer understanding of what the canonical text intends to say.

      We therefore reject the following views:

      That there are various “meanings” of a Biblical text or pericope to be discovered at various stages of its precanonical history, or that the meaning a canonical text has now may differ from the meaning it had when it was first written.
      That Biblical materials that are judged to be “authentic” (for example, “authentic” words of Jesus, “authentic” books of Paul, or “authentic” ideas of Moses) have greater authority than “non-authentic” Biblical statements.
      That certain pericopes or passages in the canonical text of Scripture may be regarded as imagi*native additions of the Biblical authors or of the early Christian community and therefore need not be accepted as fully authoritative.
      That extracanonical sources may be used in such a way as to call into question the clear mean*ing of the canonical text.
      That the essential theological data of Biblical theology is to be found in the precanonical history of the Biblical text.
      That certain canonical materials have greater authority than other canonical materials because of their greater antiquity or because they are allegedly more “genuine” or “authentic.”
      That various statements of Jesus recorded in the Gospels may not actually be from Jesus and therefore lack historical factuality or the full measure of His authority.



      The Infallibility of Scripture

      With Luther, we confess that “God’s Word cannot err” (LC, IV, 57). We therefore believe, teach and confess that since the Holy Scriptures are the Word of God, they contain no errors or contradictions but that they are in all their parts and words the infallible truth.

      We hold that the opinion that Scripture contains errors is a violation of the sola scriptura, for it rests upon the acceptance of some norm or criterion of truth above the Scriptures. We recognize that there are apparent contradictions or discrepancies and problems which arise because of uncertainty over the original text.

      We reject the following views:

      That the Scriptures contain theological as well as factual contradictions and errors.
      That the Scriptures are inerrant only in matters pertaining directly to the Gospel message of sal*vation.
      That the Scriptures are only functionally inerrant that is, that the Scriptures are “inerrant” only in the sense that they accomplish their aim of bringing the Gospel of salvation to men.
      That the Biblical authors accommodated themselves to using and repeating as true the erro*neous notions of their day (for example, the claim that Paul’s statements on the role of women in the church are not binding today because they are the culturally conditioned result of the apostle’s sharing the views of contemporary Judaism as a child of his time).
      That statements of Jesus and the New Testament writers concerning the human authorship of portions of the Old Testament or the historicity of certain Old Testament persons and events need not be regarded as true (for example, the Davidic authorship of Psalm 110, the historicity of Jonah, or the fall of Adam and Eve).
      That only those aspects of a Biblical statement need to be regarded as true that are in keeping with the alleged intent of the passage (for example, that Paul’s statements about Adam and Eve in Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 11 do not prove the historicity of Adam and Eve because this was not the specific intent of the apostle; or that the virgin birth of our Lord may be denied because the infancy narratives in Matthew and Luke did not have the specific intent to discuss a biolog*ical miracle).
      That Jesus did not make some of the statements or perform some of the deeds attributed to him in the Gospels but that they were in fact invented or created by the early Christian community or the evangelists to meet their specific needs.
      That the Biblical authors sometimes placed statements into the mouths of people who in fact did not make them (for example, the claim that the “Deuteronomist” places a speech in Solomon’s mouth which Solomon never actually made), or that they relate events as having actually taken place that did not in fact occur (for example, the fall of Adam and Eve, the crossing of the Red Sea on dry land, the episode of the brazen serpent, Jesus’ cursing of the fig tree, John the Baptist’s experiences in the wilderness, Jesus’ changing water into wine, Jesus’ walking on water, or even Jesus’ bodily resurrection from the dead or the fact of His empty tomb).
      That the use of certain “literary forms” necessarily calls into question the historicity of that which is being described (for example, that the alleged midrashic form of the infancy narratives in Matthew and Luke suggests that no virgin birth actually occurred, or that the literary form of Genesis 3 argues against the historicity of the Fall).



      .




      .... continues in next post....



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      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    10. #8
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      ... continuing from above....




      The Unity of Scripture

      We believe, teach and confess that since the same God speaks throughout Holy Scripture, there is an organic unity both within and between the Old and New Testaments. While acknowledging the rich variety of language and style in Scripture and recognizing differences of emphasis in various accounts of the same event or topic, we nevertheless affirm that the same doctrine of the Gospel, in all its articles, is presented throughout the entire Scripture.

      We reject the view that Holy Scripture, both within and between its various books and authors, presents us with conflicting or contradictory teachings and theologies. We regard this view not only as violating the Scripture’s own understanding of itself, but also as making it impossible for the church to have and confess a unified theological position that is truly Biblical and evangelical.



      Old Testament Prophecy

      Since the New Testament is the culminating written revelation of God, we affirm that it is decisive in determining the relation between the two Testaments and the meaning of Old Testament prophe*cies in particular, for the meaning of a prophecy becomes known in full only from its fulfillment. With the Lutheran Confessions, we recognize the presence of Messianic prophecies about Jesus Christ throughout the Old Testament. Accordingly, we acknowledge that the Old Testament “promises that the Messiah will come and promises forgiveness of sins, justification, and eternal life for His sake” (Apology, IV, 5) and that the patriarchs and their descendants comforted themselves with such Messianic promises (cf. FC, SD, V, 23).

      We therefore reject the following views:

      That the New Testament statements about Old Testament texts and events do not establish their meaning (for example, the claim that Jesus’ reference to Psalm 110 in Matthew 23:43-44 does not establish either the psalm’s Davidic authorship or its predictive Messianic character).
      That Old Testament prophecies are to be regarded as Messianic prophecies, not in the sense of being genuinely predictive, but only in the sense that the New Testament later applies them to New Testament events.
      That the Old Testament prophets never recognized that their prophecies reached beyond their own time to the time of Christ.




      .



      But again, these are non-binding, non-dogmatic views of the LCMS rather than official teachings of Lutheranism.




      - Josiah




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      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post

      By the way, I welcome comment from other Lutherans too. Lamm, Confessional Lutheran, and any other Lutherans or people thinking of becoming Lutheran who want to comment
      The wonderful thing about Tiggerrrrr, is I’m a Lutheran too, IIIII’m a Lutheran too. Lol

      (In my own words) What I like about Lutheranism is that it’s very clear cut and practical. Scripture is interpreted through the lens of ‘Law & Gosple’ and where doctrines are established by definitive scripture and more vague scriptures are are viewed with definitive scriptures in mind not forgetting the historic churches influence.

      Also Lutheranism is very practical ‘where the rubber meets the road’ in where they strongly emphasize your spiritual gifts and talents being lived out through daily routines of vocation and loving your neighbor.

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      Are the views binding on LCMS members, pastors, officials?
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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