• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrassed
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 29 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
    Results 11 to 20 of 284

    Christian Theology - Thread: Why are Some Saved and Not Others?

    1. #11
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      4,292
      CH Cash
      18,067
      CH Challenge
      232
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      16,935
      Level
      37
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      17.62%
      Rep Power
      426
      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Any amazement that presumably billions are going to writhe in hell for eternity and all by "God's eternal decree"?
      By a just Judge and King's sovereign decree? No, I am not amazed by what is right and just.
      God is just and justice is good. All humanity is damned to hell by humanities rebellion. It is sad that humans rebelled in Adam, but it is amazing that the just Judge would transfer his Judgment to Jesus atoning sacrifice for those whom he so wills.
      Why do you cringe and complain against the Sovereign King and Creator for choosing as He wills without condescending to your desire to know why he makes the choices he does? God owes you or me no explanation.
      God is good all the time and all the time God is good.

    2. #12
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
      MoreCoffee is online now Gold Member
      Fading awa...
       
      Mood:
      Secret
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Posts
      16,579
      Country
      Vatican
      CH Cash
      22,370
      CH Challenge
      695
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      44,263
      Level
      54
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      55.63%
      Rep Power
      686
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      By a just Judge and King's sovereign decree? No, I am not amazed by what is right and just.
      God is just and justice is good. All humanity is damned to hell by humanities rebellion. It is sad that humans rebelled in Adam, but it is amazing that the just Judge would transfer his Judgment to Jesus atoning sacrifice for those whom he so wills.
      ...
      Amazing.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

      Hidden Content

    3. #13
      Pedrito's Avatar
      Pedrito is offline Clarifier
      Married
      Hyding from Jekyll
       
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Posts
      800
      Country
      Australia
      CH Cash
      4,774
      CH Challenge
      54
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      4,092
      Level
      20
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      30.88%
      Rep Power
      111
      Post #5:
      Fact #1: God wants all men saved.
      That comes from the passage 1 Timothy 2:1-6 [emphasis added]:
      1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
      2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
      3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
      4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
      5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
      6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


      In that context, might it be pertinent to ask regarding all men (people), "saved from what"?

      What light does the Nicee Creed of 325AD throw on the matter?
      How about the Nicee Creed of 381AD?
      The Apostles' Creed?
      The Athanasian Creed?

      What does each or any of them have to say on the matter?

      Surely one of them must say something.
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

    4. Likes Confessional Lutheran liked this post
    5. #14
      Imalive's Avatar
      Imalive is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,315
      Country
      Netherlands
      CH Cash
      497,906
      CH Challenge
      0
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      10,579
      Level
      30
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      53.98%
      Rep Power
      268
      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      Fact #1: God wants all men saved.
      Fact #2: All unsaved men are spiritually dead.

      CALVINISM:
      Strength: God does 100% of the saving.
      Weakness: Denies Fact #1.

      ARMINIANISM:
      Strength: Places fault for damnation with man, not God.
      Weakness: Even if God does 99.999% of the work of salvation, it still requires some effort from a corrupt (dead) man to save himself so salvation is not 100% of God.

      LUTHERAN SOLUTION:
      God calls all and those who are saved are 100% saved by God.
      Those who are damned are 100% responsible for their own sin and rejection of the Gospel.
      The reason why some are not saved is a mystery that cannot be explained by logic without falling into error.
      (The famous Lutheran "MYSTERY").
      A mystery. That's easy. A lot are not saved cause we have to do what He says. Lester Sumrall, God showed him thousands of ppl falling into hell and said that will happen if you won't preach to them. That was his calling to the ministry.

    6. Likes psalms 91 liked this post
    7. #15
      Imalive's Avatar
      Imalive is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,315
      Country
      Netherlands
      CH Cash
      497,906
      CH Challenge
      0
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      10,579
      Level
      30
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      53.98%
      Rep Power
      268

    8. #16
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
      MoreCoffee is online now Gold Member
      Fading awa...
       
      Mood:
      Secret
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Posts
      16,579
      Country
      Vatican
      CH Cash
      22,370
      CH Challenge
      695
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      44,263
      Level
      54
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      55.63%
      Rep Power
      686
      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      Post #5:


      That comes from the passage 1 Timothy 2:1-6 [emphasis added]:
      1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
      2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
      3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
      4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
      5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
      6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


      In that context, might it be pertinent to ask regarding all men (people), "saved from what"?

      What light does the Nicee Creed of 325AD throw on the matter?
      How about the Nicee Creed of 381AD?
      The Apostles' Creed?
      The Athanasian Creed?

      What does each or any of them have to say on the matter?

      Surely one of them must say something.
      Nicene Creed

      We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
      the only Son of God,
      eternally begotten of the Father,
      God from God, Light from Light,
      true God from true God,
      begotten, not made,
      one in Being with the Father.
      Through him all things were made.
      For us men and for our salvation,
      he came down from heaven
      :

      by the power of the Holy Spirit
      he was born of the Virgin Mary,
      and became man.

      For our sake he was crucified
      under Pontius Pilate;
      he suffered died and was buried.

      On the third day he rose again
      in fulfillment of the Scriptures;

      he ascended into heaven
      and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
      He will come again in glory
      to judge the living and the dead,
      and his kingdom will have no end.

      The Athanasian Creed says something similar.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

      Hidden Content

    9. #17
      Josiah's Avatar
      Josiah is offline Bronze Member
      Supporting Member
      Married
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      6,904
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      117,965
      CH Challenge
      270
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      71,370
      Level
      65
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      26.64%
      Rep Power
      916
      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post


      Fact #1: God wants all men saved.
      Fact #2: All unsaved men are spiritually dead.


      CALVINISM:
      Strength: God does 100% of the saving.
      Weakness: Denies Fact #1.

      ARMINIANISM:
      Strength: Places fault for damnation with man, not God.
      Weakness: Even if God does 99.999% of the work of salvation, it still requires some effort from a corrupt (dead) man to save himself so salvation is not 100% of God.

      LUTHERAN:
      God calls all and those who are saved are 100% saved by God.
      Those who are damned are 100% responsible for their own sin and rejection of the Gospel.
      The reason why some are not saved is a mystery that cannot be explained by logic without falling into error.
      (The famous Lutheran "MYSTERY").




      .







      .
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    10. Likes Confessional Lutheran liked this post
    11. #18
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
      MoreCoffee is online now Gold Member
      Fading awa...
       
      Mood:
      Secret
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Posts
      16,579
      Country
      Vatican
      CH Cash
      22,370
      CH Challenge
      695
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      44,263
      Level
      54
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      55.63%
      Rep Power
      686
      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      That little green "high 5" guy looks a little off colour
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

      Hidden Content

    12. #19
      Snerfle is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      Geeky
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2017
      Location
      In a house
      Posts
      1,646
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      123,904
      CH Challenge
      0
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      10,023
      Level
      29
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      85.3%
      Rep Power
      204
      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      Fact #1: God wants all men saved.
      Fact #2: All unsaved men are spiritually dead.

      CALVINISM:
      Strength: God does 100% of the saving.
      Weakness: Denies Fact #1.

      ARMINIANISM:
      Strength: Places fault for damnation with man, not God.
      Weakness: Even if God does 99.999% of the work of salvation, it still requires some effort from a corrupt (dead) man to save himself so salvation is not 100% of God.

      LUTHERAN SOLUTION:
      God calls all and those who are saved are 100% saved by God.
      Those who are damned are 100% responsible for their own sin and rejection of the Gospel.
      The reason why some are not saved is a mystery that cannot be explained by logic without falling into error.
      (The famous Lutheran "MYSTERY").
      So going by the above definitions, it appears that the Lutheran position supports osas, then, yes no?
      Or are the saved 100% saved by God, but He is unable to keep that which He saved?

      The opposition to osas kind of reminds me of a Seinfeld episode, where he made a reservation to rent a car at an airport.

      When he got there, there was no car.
      He stated, 'But I made a reservation'.

      They replied, 'We know, we took the reservation, we know how to take reservations'.
      Seinfeld says, 'You dont seem to know the purpose of taking a reservation'.

      Airport: We know the purpose.
      Seinfeld: Obviously you dont...if you did...I'd have a car!
      You might know how to TAKE reservation,
      but you dont seem to know how to HOLD one.
      And THAT really is the purpose for taking one, isnt it? It's the holding!
      Anybody can just TAKE em. (willy-nilly, lol)
      But its the HOOLLLDDING that really is key, isn't it?

      It seems similar here. Some ppl know how to SAY God saved them (although some dont, it seems, so maybe they're not, but we can't assume that)
      But they dont seem to BELIEVE God saved them...
      They dont seem to trust that God will KEEP them (HOLD the reservation)

      once saved ... maybe?... but not ALWAYS saved? ... maybe?
      ~Deliberate ignorance
      is anti-christian~

    13. #20
      Albion's Avatar
      Albion is offline Expert Member
      Married
      Mood:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      2,773
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      14,097
      CH Challenge
      298
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      19,003
      Level
      38
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      98.31%
      Rep Power
      570
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      The Lutheran theory is just a semi-pelagian theory.
      It is a bit complex, I agree, but what you've said here is definitely not the case. Lutherans essentially say that we are lost without Christ but if given the gift of faith can still lose salvation.

    14. Likes Confessional Lutheran liked this post

    Tags for this Thread

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •