What message do you take away from Job?

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,121
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The end of the book of Job contains what looks like the longest speech by God in the holy scriptures. What do you make of it?

Then out of the storm the LORD spoke to Job.
Who are you to question my wisdom with your ignorant, empty words? Now stand up straight and answer the questions I ask you. Were you there when I made the world? If you know so much, tell me about it. Who decided how large it would be? Who stretched the measuring line over it? Do you know all the answers? What holds up the pillars that support the earth? Who laid the cornerstone of the world? In the dawn of that day the stars sang together, and the heavenly beings shouted for joy. Who closed the gates to hold back the sea when it burst from the womb of the earth? It was I who covered the sea with clouds and wrapped it in darkness. I marked a boundary for the sea and kept it behind bolted gates. I told it, "So far and no farther! Here your powerful waves must stop." Job, have you ever in all your life commanded a day to dawn? Have you ordered the dawn to seize the earth and shake the wicked from their hiding places? Daylight makes the hills and valleys stand out like the folds of a garment, clear as the imprint of a seal on clay. The light of day is too bright for the wicked and restrains them from doing violence. Have you been to the springs in the depths of the sea? Have you walked on the floor of the ocean? Has anyone ever shown you the gates that guard the dark world of the dead? Have you any idea how big the world is? Answer me if you know. Do you know where the light comes from or what the source of darkness is? Can you show them how far to go, or send them back again? I am sure you can, because you're so old and were there when the world was made! Have you ever visited the storerooms, where I keep the snow and the hail? I keep them ready for times of trouble, for days of battle and war. Have you been to the place where the sun comes up, or the place from which the east wind blows? Who dug a channel for the pouring rain and cleared the way for the thunderstorm? Who makes rain fall where no one lives? Who waters the dry and thirsty land, so that grass springs up? Does either the rain or the dew have a father? Who is the mother of the ice and the frost, which turn the waters to stone and freeze the face of the sea? Can you tie the Pleiades together or loosen the bonds that hold Orion? Can you guide the stars season by season and direct the Big and the Little Dipper? Do you know the laws that govern the skies, and can you make them apply to the earth? Can you shout orders to the clouds and make them drench you with rain? And if you command the lightning to flash, will it come to you and say, "At your service"? Who tells the ibis when the Nile will flood, or who tells the rooster that rain will fall? Who is wise enough to count the clouds and tilt them over to pour out the rain, rain that hardens the dust into lumps? Do you find food for lions to eat, and satisfy hungry young lions when they hide in their caves, or lie in wait in their dens? Who is it that feeds the ravens when they wander about hungry, when their young cry to me for food? Do you know when mountain goats are born? Have you watched wild deer give birth? Do you know how long they carry their young? Do you know the time for their birth? Do you know when they will crouch down and bring their young into the world? In the wilds their young grow strong; they go away and don't come back. Who gave the wild donkeys their freedom? Who turned them loose and let them roam? I gave them the desert to be their home, and let them live on the salt plains. They keep far away from the noisy cities, and no one can tame them and make them work. The mountains are the pastures where they feed, where they search for anything green to eat. Will a wild ox work for you? Is he willing to spend the night in your stable? Can you hold one with a rope and make him plow? Or make him pull a harrow in your fields? Can you rely on his great strength and expect him to do your heavy work? Do you expect him to bring in your harvest and gather the grain from your threshing place? How fast the wings of an ostrich beat! But no ostrich can fly like a stork. The ostrich leaves her eggs on the ground for the heat in the soil to warm them. She is unaware that a foot may crush them or a wild animal break them. She acts as if the eggs were not hers, and is unconcerned that her efforts were wasted. It was I who made her foolish and did not give her wisdom. But when she begins to run, she can laugh at any horse and rider. Was it you, Job, who made horses so strong and gave them their flowing manes? Did you make them leap like locusts and frighten people with their snorting? They eagerly paw the ground in the valley; they rush into battle with all their strength. They do not know the meaning of fear, and no sword can turn them back. The weapons which their riders carry rattle and flash in the sun. Trembling with excitement, the horses race ahead; when the trumpet blows, they can't stand still. At each blast of the trumpet they snort; they can smell a battle before they get near, and they hear the officers shouting commands. Does a hawk learn from you how to fly when it spreads its wings toward the south? Does an eagle wait for your command to build its nest high in the mountains? It makes its home on the highest rocks and makes the sharp peaks its fortress. From there it watches near and far for something to kill and eat. Around dead bodies the eagles gather, and the young eagles drink the blood. Job, you challenged Almighty God; will you give up now, or will you answer?​


I spoke foolishly, LORD. What can I answer? I will not try to say anything else. I have already said more than I should.

Then out of the storm the LORD spoke to Job once again.
Now stand up straight and answer my questions. Are you trying to prove that I am unjust--- to put me in the wrong and yourself in the right? Are you as strong as I am? Can your voice thunder as loud as mine? If so, stand up in your honor and pride; clothe yourself with majesty and glory. Look at those who are proud; pour out your anger and humble them. Yes, look at them and bring them down; crush the wicked where they stand. Bury them all in the ground; bind them in the world of the dead. Then I will be the first to praise you and admit that you won the victory yourself. Look at the monster Behemoth; I created him and I created you. He eats grass like a cow, but what strength there is in his body, and what power there is in his muscles! His tail stands up like a cedar, and the muscles in his legs are strong. His bones are as strong as bronze, and his legs are like iron bars. The most amazing of all my creatures! Only his Creator can defeat him. Grass to feed him grows on the hills where wild beasts play. He lies down under the thorn bushes, and hides among the reeds in the swamp. The thorn bushes and the willows by the stream give him shelter in their shade. He is not afraid of a rushing river; he is calm when the Jordan dashes in his face. Who can blind his eyes and capture him? Or who can catch his snout in a trap? Can you catch Leviathan with a fishhook or tie his tongue down with a rope? Can you put a rope through his snout or put a hook through his jaws? Will he beg you to let him go? Will he plead with you for mercy? Will he make an agreement with you and promise to serve you forever? Will you tie him like a pet bird, like something to amuse your servant women? Will fishermen bargain over him? Will merchants cut him up to sell? Can you fill his hide with fishing spears or pierce his head with a harpoon? Touch him once and you'll never try it again; you'll never forget the fight! Anyone who sees Leviathan loses courage and falls to the ground. When he is aroused, he is fierce; no one would dare to stand before him. Who can attack him and still be safe? No one in all the world can do it. Let me tell you about Leviathan's legs and describe how great and strong he is. No one can tear off his outer coat or pierce the armor he wears. Who can make him open his jaws, ringed with those terrifying teeth? His back is made of rows of shields, fastened together and hard as stone. Each one is joined so tight to the next, not even a breath can come between. They all are fastened so firmly together that nothing can ever pull them apart. Light flashes when he sneezes, and his eyes glow like the rising sun. Flames blaze from his mouth, and streams of sparks fly out. Smoke comes pouring out of his nose, like smoke from weeds burning under a pot. His breath starts fires burning; flames leap out of his mouth. His neck is so powerful that all who meet him are terrified. There is not a weak spot in his skin; it is as hard and unyielding as iron. His stony heart is without fear, as unyielding and hard as a millstone. When he rises up, even the strongest are frightened; they are helpless with fear. There is no sword that can wound him; no spear or arrow or lance that can harm him. For him iron is as flimsy as straw, and bronze as soft as rotten wood. There is no arrow that can make him run; rocks thrown at him are like bits of straw. To him a club is a piece of straw, and he laughs when men throw spears. The scales on his belly are like jagged pieces of pottery; they tear up the muddy ground like a threshing sledge. He churns up the sea like boiling water and makes it bubble like a pot of oil. He leaves a shining path behind him and turns the sea to white foam. There is nothing on earth to compare with him; he is a creature that has no fear. He looks down on even the proudest animals; he is king of all wild beasts.​
[Job 38:1-41:34 GNB]
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
4,919
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
That God's ways are above ours just like the sky is above the earth. And that He doesn't owe us an explanation for what He does.
 

Confessional Lutheran

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
867
Age
50
Location
Northern Virginia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Divorced
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
God's ways are higher than our own and His will shall be done. Testing followed by redemption seems to be a major theme in this work.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,121
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Where do you think these pillars are? The ones referred to here What holds up the pillars that support the earth?
 

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Where do you think these pillars are? The ones referred to here What holds up the pillars that support the earth?

Jesus

upholding all things by the word of His power
 

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
The water

What is with the pillars ? What are they for and what do they do ? They are there to hold up the foundations of the earth according to the Bible.(1 Sam 2:8 above). When the earth was created it was set on foundations and those foundations are held up by pillars. But why put the foundations on pillars at all? The answer lies in 2Pe 3:5 "...the earth standing out of the water and in the water:" It is to elevate the foundations so that the earth would not be submerged in the waters below.
(copied from a flat earth page)

Just like Amsterdam
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,121
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The water

What is with the pillars ? What are they for and what do they do ? They are there to hold up the foundations of the earth according to the Bible.(1 Sam 2:8 above). When the earth was created it was set on foundations and those foundations are held up by pillars. But why put the foundations on pillars at all? The answer lies in 2Pe 3:5 "...the earth standing out of the water and in the water:" It is to elevate the foundations so that the earth would not be submerged in the waters below.
(copied from a flat earth page)

Just like Amsterdam

The earth is not flat and has no pillars upon which it rests nor is it standing above waters.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,121
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
I doubt that it ever was. The theories in those links are fantasies.

Don't know. There were fountains of the great deep. Don't know if pillars mean that, could be. I wasn't there lol.
 

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
"Dear God, What do you think You are doing?" is a bad question to ask the Great I Am.
 

user1234

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
1,654
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Other Church
Marital Status
Separated
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
"Dear God, What do you think You are doing?" is a bad question to ask the Great I Am.
Lol...thats a little more polite than my approach has been in the past, which is closer to...

What in the Wide Wide World o' Sports is a'goin' on here????!!!!
 
Last edited:

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
When great sorrow and heart-ache come to our lives, it is very easy to ask the question: What have I done to deserve this? We tend to view God as a cosmic Santa who lavishes us with presents when we do good and gives us coal when we do bad. The dialogue in Job is the struggle to resolve the theology we hold with the experiences we face. We ask: How can a loving God ordain such sorrow and still be loving? It's the problem of pain.
We work really hard to problem solve and put God into our box. We have created our own "Golden Calf" image of who God is. That becomes the God we worship.
Then God graciously comes into the conversation and asks us: What do you know about my Sovereign will?
The answer is: Nothing. We cannot comprehend what God is doing as He weaves His ordained will throughout His creation. We respond like Job in full repentance (Job 42) and ask God to forgive us for creating our own graven image of God like Aaron did. We confess we don't understand. Then God forgives us. After this we receive the grace to heal through the process of grieving. God restores us and heals us.
For me, that is the message of Job.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,121
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
"Dear God, What do you think You are doing?" is a bad question to ask the Great I Am.

It's a fair question. God does some very odd things. It would be less than honest to pretend otherwise.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
It's a fair question. God does some very odd things. It would be less than honest to pretend otherwise.
God's ordained will is impossible to comprehend and because we have a different definition of love (or at least interpretation of what love looks like experientially) we are therefore puzzled by the presence of evil. We are like the one musician in the orchestra who only has the music for his/her instrument, while the conductor is reading the entire score. We are not privileged to know the entirety. We must trust the conductor who, in this case, also wrote the score.
 

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
-
 
Last edited:

JRT

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
780
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Whenever one tries to read a mythology as literal truth it is almost inevitable that huge contradictions will be found.
 

JRT

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
780
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
The message that I get from Job is that prosperity theology is bunk. Being righteous in no way guarantees your prosperity and being prosperous does not necessarily mean that you are righteous. In fact, in both cases the reverse is very frequently the case.
 

user1234

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
1,654
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Other Church
Marital Status
Separated
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Whenever one tries to read a mythology as literal truth it is almost inevitable that huge contradictions will be found.
What mythology are you referring to?
 
Top Bottom