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    1. #1
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Would you name your kid "stupid", "dimwitted", "vain", "selfish" or "slow"?

      This is a serious question. My guess is that in whatever culture you live, whatever language you speak, no one but a cruel parent would name their kid any of these. I'm going to assume, lacking a good logical rebuttal, that everyone would agree on this. If not, speak up with your reason or reasons.

      So I'm reading Romans 16. This is a passage that is unlikely to be read in church services or even by most christians as it is mostly just a list of thanks and greetings to people.

      Romans 16:11 Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord.

      https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=G3488&t=KJV

      Root or Etymology: A flower of the same name, from narke (stupefaction, as a "narcotic")

      Meaning and Biblical usage:

      Narcissus = "stupidity"

      a dweller at Rome mentioned by Paul in Rom. 16:11

      Every Greek speaker would know the meaning of this word, and likely familiar with the mythology that is associated with it. The Story of Narcissus and a pride and vanity so deep that he committed suicide because his own image which he adored could not return love.


      So the dude who's named this in Paul's writings - most unlucky guy in history or what? He must have been a laughing stock among his fellow Greeks, what do ya think?

    2. #2
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Among Greek speaking people wasn't Narcissus a character from myth who was so good looking that he fell in love with himself while seeing his reflection in the water?

      In Greek mythology, Narcissus (/nɑːrˈsɪsəs/; Greek: Νάρκισσος, Nárkissos) was a hunter from Thespiae in Boeotia who was known for his beauty. He was the son of the river god Cephissus and nymph Liriope.[1] He was proud, in that he disdained those who loved him. Nemesis noticed this behavior and attracted Narcissus to a pool, where he saw his own reflection in the water and fell in love with it, not realizing it was merely an image. Unable to leave the beauty of his reflection, Narcissus lost his will to live. He stared at his reflection until he died. Narcissus is the origin of the term narcissism, a fixation with oneself and one's physical appearance or public perception.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    3. #3
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Among Greek speaking people wasn't Narcissus a character from myth who was so good looking that he fell in love with himself while seeing his reflection in the water?

      In Greek mythology, Narcissus (/nɑːrˈsɪsəs/; Greek: Νάρκισσος, Nárkissos) was a hunter from Thespiae in Boeotia who was known for his beauty. He was the son of the river god Cephissus and nymph Liriope.[1] He was proud, in that he disdained those who loved him. Nemesis noticed this behavior and attracted Narcissus to a pool, where he saw his own reflection in the water and fell in love with it, not realizing it was merely an image. Unable to leave the beauty of his reflection, Narcissus lost his will to live. He stared at his reflection until he died. Narcissus is the origin of the term narcissism, a fixation with oneself and one's physical appearance or public perception.
      The same, yes. Different versions of the myth exist, but the theme and story is basically the same.

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      The same, yes. Different versions of the myth exist, but the theme and story is basically the same.
      You're right, it seems like a bad name for a child. But maybe the Greek myth was not well known in his part of the world?

      Romans 16:11 Greetings to Herodion, a fellow Jew, and to the Christians in the family of Narcissus.

      [Cambridge]

      Romans 16:11

      Herodion my kinsman] See on Rom 16:7. The name is Greek.
      them that be of the household of Narcissus] Lit., as just above, those from amongst Narcissus. There was one notorious Narcissus, a freedman of Claudius; and another, one of Neros bad favourites. Either of these may have been the master of the Christian dependents here saluted; but the name was a common one. The freedman of Claudius was probably by this time dead, but his household may have been subsisting still.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    5. #5
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      "Greet them that be of the household of stupidity..."


      A young figure sits still by a pool
      He's been stamped "Human Bacon" by some butchery tool
      He is you
      Social Security took care of this lad
      We watch in reverence, as Narcissus is turned to a flower
      A flower? - Genesis - 'Supper's Ready'
      Last edited by ImaginaryDay2; 11-19-2017 at 12:05 AM.
      I Hope This HelpsTM

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    7. #6
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      "Greet them that be of the household of stupidity..."
      At least they're "in the Lord".
      Yes, but the implication in the commentary that I referenced is that Narcissus might not be a Christian while some of his household were Christians.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    8. #7
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      "Greet them that be of the household of stupidity..."
      At least they're "in the Lord".
      There is a book by Thomas More that you might like, it is called The Sadness of Christ.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    9. #8
      ImaginaryDay2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      There is a book by Thomas More that you might like, it is called The Sadness of Christ.
      I've found a PDF of it. I'll have a look
      I Hope This HelpsTM

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    11. #9
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      You're right, it seems like a bad name for a child. But maybe the Greek myth was not well known in his part of the world?

      Romans 16:11 Greetings to Herodion, a fellow Jew, and to the Christians in the family of Narcissus.

      [Cambridge]

      Romans 16:11

      Herodion my kinsman] See on Rom 16:7. The name is Greek.
      them that be of the household of Narcissus] Lit., as just above, those from amongst Narcissus. There was one notorious Narcissus, a freedman of Claudius; and another, one of Neros bad favourites. Either of these may have been the master of the Christian dependents here saluted; but the name was a common one. The freedman of Claudius was probably by this time dead, but his household may have been subsisting still.
      Of course it's possible that the Greek Myth was not known among the general populace. That's hard to say one way or the other. This name, however, does not appear to be common at all among the Greeks as one someone would be named by. I'm not finding any literature at all that people are named this with 1 exception - People born after Paul's time and named in reference to his writings. Other than that, it appears to only be part of the Greek mythology, and not a name actually used by the Greek people themselves.

      According to: http://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki...ncient_sources

      "Several versions of this myth have survived from ancient sources. The classic version is by Ovid, found in book 3 of his Metamorphoses (completed 8 AD). This the story of Narcissus and Echo. An earlier version ascribed to the poet Parthenius of Nicaea, composed around 50 BC, was recently rediscovered among the Oxyrhynchus papyri at Oxford.[2] Unlike Ovid's version, this one ends with Narcissus committing suicide. A version by Conon, a contemporary of Ovid, also ends in suicide (Narrations, 24). A century later the travel writer Pausanias recorded a novel variant of the story, in which Narcissus falls in love with his twin sister rather than himself (Guide to Greece, 9.31.7).[3]"

      According to: https://www.behindthename.com/name/narcissus

      "Latinized form of Greek Ναρκισσος (Narkissos), possibly derived from ναρκη (narke) meaning "sleep, numbness". Narkissos was a beautiful youth in Greek mythology who stared at his own reflection for so long that he eventually died and was turned into the narcissus flower.

      This name appears briefly in the epistles in the New Testament and was also borne by a few early saints, including a 2nd-century patriarch of Jerusalem. It has been used to the present, especially in Catholic regions, usually in honour of the saint as opposed to the mythological character.
      "

      In other words, this name, as far as the Greeks go, comes from the mythology and (insofar as I can tell) was not used at all for the names of the Greek people. Understandably, someone who actually knew the name would know the myth associated with it and would not likely use it as a name for their child.

      It is used AFTER the Pauline letters though, which seems to indicate that such usage as a name for a real person is influenced by his writings (here in Romans 16) and not by the Greek myth itself.

      All this says to me that it is an *incredibly* unique name to be carrying around at this time(at the time Paul supposedly meets this person), and if I may entertain the irony - so unlikely as to be stupefying.
      Last edited by Stravinsk; 11-19-2017 at 02:53 AM.

    12. #10
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      I once met a woman from Texas whose name was Urine. (pronounced U-reen-ee)
      Never underestimate the stupidity of another human being.

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