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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: God's displeasure with Cain?

    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Abel didn't offer a sacrifice - he offered the firstlings -there is no mention of killing in the text. Only the offering of a gift. The word "sacrifice" is NOT included. Abel did NOT slay any of his flock.


      Abel is the Shepherd of the flock - he is a good shepherd, who lays down his life for the sheep

      Abel, not Cain - is declared Righteous by Yeshua.

      What is Cain's sin?

      Whatever Cain's sin is - it led him to murder Abel. Why would Cain murder Abel?

      Abel stood in the way of Cain's evil desire to eat the flesh of animals contrary to God's command.

      Saul/Paul - your favorite murdering Pharisee - approves. The Jews approve also, but you aren't likely to know this. Saul/Paul is one of their number - from the ravenous tribe of Benjamin - the tribe of the ravenous wolf according to Genesis 49:27.
      he gave firstlings of their fat
      liposuction?
      Paul wouldnt eat meat ever again if it would offend a brother.
      Nowhere did God forbid them to eat meat after the fall. Did He dress them in snake skin as some say that fell off?

    2. #22
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      That makes no sense. God wasnt pleased w the Israelites who wanted meat so he gave em birds til it came out of their nose.

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Abel didn't offer a sacrifice - he offered the firstlings -there is no mention of killing in the text. Only the offering of a gift. The word "sacrifice" is NOT included. Abel did NOT slay any of his flock.


      Abel is the Shepherd of the flock - he is a good shepherd, who lays down his life for the sheep

      Abel, not Cain - is declared Righteous by Yeshua.

      What is Cain's sin?

      Whatever Cain's sin is - it led him to murder Abel. Why would Cain murder Abel?

      Abel stood in the way of Cain's evil desire to eat the flesh of animals contrary to God's command.

      Saul/Paul - your favorite murdering Pharisee - approves. The Jews approve also, but you aren't likely to know this. Saul/Paul is one of their number - from the ravenous tribe of Benjamin - the tribe of the ravenous wolf according to Genesis 49:27.
      4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.
      Abel didn't offer a sacrifice - he offered the firstlings -there is no mention of killing in the text. Only the offering of a gift. The word "sacrifice" is NOT included. Abel did NOT slay any of his flock.
      Hey read the text. A more acceptable sacrifice

      The tribe of Benjamin were not supposed to have survived because of their treatment of chopping the woman into 12 pieces and sending them to the different tribes after they pulled the Lot thing of offering a woman so that their brethern wouldn't sodomize the guy. Then they had the gall to be affronted with the violence of her death. But they are mentioned in Revelation to be a surviving tribe in the 144000 whereas Dan is not who formed their own Levitical priesthood in the same book of Judges.

      If the question is what was Cain's sin? then I'd have to say the same as Esaus. Not acceptable. In the case of Esau not being accepted then greed would be the sin. Same with Cain because just because his offering wasn't accepted he had no reason to kill his brother except to get the blessing without His acceptance.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      Hey read the text. A more acceptable sacrifice

      The tribe of Benjamin were not supposed to have survived because of their treatment of chopping the woman into 12 pieces and sending them to the different tribes after they pulled the Lot thing of offering a woman so that their brethern wouldn't sodomize the guy. Then they had the gall to be affronted with the violence of her death. But they are mentioned in Revelation to be a surviving tribe whereas Dan is not who formed their own Levitical priesthood in the same book of Judges.

      If the question is what was Cain's sin? then I'd have to say the same as Esaus. Not acceptable. In the case of Esau not being accepted then greed would be the sin. Same with Cain because just because his offering wasn't accepted he had no reason to kill his brother except to get the blessing without His acceptance.
      Hey. I read the text and I know the Hebrew. You can say "sacrifice" till you're blue in the face but that is NOT the word used in Genesis 4 with regard to Abel's action. Abel offers a gift, not a sacrifice. Learn the Hebrew, know the difference.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Hey. I read the text and I know the Hebrew. You can say "sacrifice" till you're blue in the face but that is NOT the word used in Genesis 4 with regard to Abel's action. Abel offers a gift, not a sacrifice. Learn the Hebrew, know the difference.
      Both offering and sacrifice are used.

      Heb 11:4
      By faith G4102 Abel G6 offered G4374 unto God G2316 a more excellent G4119 sacrifice G2378 than G3844 Cain, G2535 by G1223 which G3739 he obtained witness G3140 that he was G1511 righteous, G1342 God G2316 testifying G3140 of G1909 his G846 gifts: G1435 and G2532 by G1223 it G846 he being dead G599 yet G2089 speaketh. G2980 G2980

      Gen 4:3
      And in process H7093 of time H3117 it came to pass, that Cain H7014 brought H935 of the fruit H6529 of the ground H127 an offering H4503 unto the LORD. H3068


      Maybe take up Greek
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    6. #26
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      1 John 3
      Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

    7. Likes Cassia liked this post
    8. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      1 John 3
      Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
      I have asked since the very first post what the "evil" work or works are. Tilling the ground or offering God what comes from the ground aren't evil.

      So it can't be that.

      Abel was killed because he was a good shepherd, and Cain was after his sheep.

      Animal flesh was not on the diet until post flood - this is Cain's sin.

    9. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      Both offering and sacrifice are used.

      Heb 11:4
      By faith G4102 Abel G6 offered G4374 unto God G2316 a more excellent G4119 sacrifice G2378 than G3844 Cain, G2535 by G1223 which G3739 he obtained witness G3140 that he was G1511 righteous, G1342 God G2316 testifying G3140 of G1909 his G846 gifts: G1435 and G2532 by G1223 it G846 he being dead G599 yet G2089 speaketh. G2980 G2980

      Gen 4:3
      And in process H7093 of time H3117 it came to pass, that Cain H7014 brought H935 of the fruit H6529 of the ground H127 an offering H4503 unto the LORD. H3068


      Maybe take up Greek ;)
      Hebrew you mean? I've looked up the word for that passage, it does not mean "slaughter" or "sacrifice", it means gift, present or even presence(as in I'm present in this thread while I type this post). The gift can be in the form of a sacrifice, but it doesn't need to be.

      Here is the word: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=H4503&t=KJV

      Here is an example of how it is used to NOT depict a sacrifice or animal slaughter:

      Genesis 43:11 And their father Israel said unto them, If it must be so now, do this; take of the best fruits in the land in your vessels, and carry down the man a present, H4503 a little balm, and a little honey, spices, and myrrh, nuts, and almonds:

      Here is another example of having nothing to do with animals at all:

      Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering H4503 of jealousy, an offering H4503 of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

      And another:

      And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines measured he to put to death, and with one full line to keep alive. And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts. H4503
      Last edited by Stravinsk; 11-03-2017 at 01:35 AM.

    10. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      Hey read the text. A more acceptable sacrifice

      The tribe of Benjamin were not supposed to have survived because of their treatment of chopping the woman into 12 pieces and sending them to the different tribes after they pulled the Lot thing of offering a woman so that their brethern wouldn't sodomize the guy. Then they had the gall to be affronted with the violence of her death. But they are mentioned in Revelation to be a surviving tribe in the 144000 whereas Dan is not who formed their own Levitical priesthood in the same book of Judges.

      If the question is what was Cain's sin? then I'd have to say the same as Esaus. Not acceptable. In the case of Esau not being accepted then greed would be the sin. Same with Cain because just because his offering wasn't accepted he had no reason to kill his brother except to get the blessing without His acceptance.
      Don't confuse the book of Hebrews (written in Greek) with the language of Hebrew. The New Testament book of Hebrews certainly does say it was a "sacrifice". However the Hebrew word used in Genesis does NOT mean this.



      You might as well say that Cain "slaughtered" the vegetables he was offering. But in Christian cognitive dissonance world, I understand how it has to be made to fit.
      Last edited by Stravinsk; 11-03-2017 at 01:11 AM.

    11. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      he gave firstlings of their fat
      liposuction?
      Paul wouldnt eat meat ever again if it would offend a brother.
      Nowhere did God forbid them to eat meat after the fall. Did He dress them in snake skin as some say that fell off?
      God described what they could eat. All you need to do is read Genesis 9:3 to see that meat was not on the menu until post flood. At a guess, that might have been necessary until enough vegetation grew back.

      As for offering "fat" of the sheep. Well, when sheep are tended well and they eat well and are protected, they get fat. If they were always on the run from predators because they didn't have a shepherd like Abel and didn't have time to eat that grass they love, they wouldn't be fat. Simple enough?

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