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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: God's displeasure with Cain?

    1. #1
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      God's displeasure with Cain?

      In Genesis Chapter 4 is the story of Cain and Abel.

      In verse 7 God clearly says that Cain is not accepted because he does not "do well" and that "sin is at the door".

      This is important - it is not Cain's wroth or his disappointment that his offering was rejected that is the sin - but the sin itself is not named.

      Equally as important is that this all happens before Cain murders Abel.

      Abel is a shepherd, he keeps the sheep free from dangers like predators - for example - wolves. Abel is a good shepherd, and Yeshua calls him "righteous" (Matthew 23:35)

      This all happens many generations before the flood, and as such, God has not given men permission to eat animals.

      The text does not say Abel actually sacrificed any of the flock, just that he kept them (protected them) and offered God the firstlings and the fat thereof. There is no explicit sacrifice in the Genesis text, nor any of the Old Testament that I am aware of referencing this particular event.



      So, what is Cain's sin?

      Secondary Question for Pauline Christians - is Yeshua telling lies when he calls Abel righteous? Because according to your teacher (former murderer turned saint according to himself), no one is.

    2. #2
      psalms 91's Avatar
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      Does it not point to the offering itself in the fact that God rejected it? So was the sin that he did not obey God as to what to offer
      Isaiah 40:31

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      Paul just quotes some O.T. text there which everyone plucks out of context.

      God clothed Adam and Eve, so I think He or an angel killed an animal. So Adam taught his sons about that, blood offering, but Cain didn't need a blood offering for his sins he thought. He gave an offer from his own works and it wasn't tithes and had no blood, so that wasn't good. God just didn't accept his own good works offer and then warned him, but he got jealous and hateful and did not listen to God.

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      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Here is part of the text:

      In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.

      Notice how Abel brought the fat portions from some of the firstborn but Cain only brought "some of the fruits of the soil". I think this is important when looking at the text to see how little consideration Cain went into choosing his offering to the Lord.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Here is part of the text:

      In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.

      Notice how Abel brought the fat portions from some of the firstborn but Cain only brought "some of the fruits of the soil". I think this is important when looking at the text to see how little consideration Cain went into choosing his offering to the Lord.
      I do not think it was the amount of care used in choosing the offerings but I do think that the type of offering mattered. Able offered the life of an animal in place of his own and Cain didn't offer any life just vegetables.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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    8. #6
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      Does it not point to the offering itself in the fact that God rejected it? So was the sin that he did not obey God as to what to offer
      The text states that God rejected both Cain and his offering and respected Abel and his offering. So it is not just the offering.

      What is Cain's sin? The text does not say. However - he murdered the shepherd Abel. Good Shepherds don't kill their sheep, they lay down their life for them.

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      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I do not think it was the amount of care used in choosing the offerings but I do think that the type of offering mattered. Able offered the life of an animal in place of his own and Cain didn't offer any life just vegetables.
      Doesn't that show he didn't really care?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    10. #8
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I do not think it was the amount of care used in choosing the offerings but I do think that the type of offering mattered. Able offered the life of an animal in place of his own and Cain didn't offer any life just vegetables.
      The text does not state that Abel killed an animal. The word Sacrifice is not used (and I checked - the Hebrew word Sacrifice is NOT used in the story).

      Abel is a good shepherd. Good shepherds protect sheep.

      What is Cain's sin?

    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Doesn't that show he didn't really care?
      It shows something - probably disobedience.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    12. #10
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      It shows something - probably disobedience.
      If Abel is disobedient, then Yeshua boo booed when He called him righteous.

      Abel is a good shepherd. Good Shepherds protect their flock from predators. The offering (Hebrew: Gift, מִנְחָה Strongs H4503) means primarily "gift" - it can be used *with reference* to a sacrifice - but itself does not mean sacrifice . The text does not state that Abel killed any of the flock he tended. The word for sacrifice is זֶבַח Strongs H2077 - a completely different word.

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