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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: Justification or Sanctification Differences

    1. #21
      DHoffmann's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I do not know God's work in each persons life. It is possible that many people in the church are attempting to be adopted by God through their own efforts even though God has never chosen to adopt them.
      When the non-reconciled see the joy that reconciliation brings they will either get angry or they will attempt to imitate what they see without ever having experienced God grace. How many people are doing this, only God knows. My only role is to preach the truth presented in scripture and to correct false teaching. If God changes the path of a person that is for God to do. I leave it in His very capable hands.
      Thats good news. I thank God for all things God does in everyones life.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      It's false teaching, but God never extends false grace.
      You quote in Jude actually supports Romans 9 where Paul informs us that God sovereignly chooses those whom he loves and thus determines those whom he will hate. Notice how Jude tells us that these men were, long ago, marked out for this condemnation. It was by God's sovereign ordination. Wrap your head around that.

      Your quotation of Galatians 5 does not determine a person's salvation, but it does identify what actions come from the Spirit of God and what actions come from our corrupt sinful nature. It has nothing to do with justification and salvation.

      If someone is entangled in a false teaching it is their own fault. If God has actually adopted them by his unmerited favor, God will pull them out of such false teaching. If God has never adopted them, they will die in their trespasses and sins no matter where they roam.
      Nothing to do with salvation?
      It says those don't inherit the Kingdom.

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    4. #23
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      Catholics see Justification as the process of being made righteous by God's grace in the lives of the faithful.

      Catholics see sanctification as being made holy (set apart for service to God in whatever role he calls the faithful to live their lives).
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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    6. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      Nothing to do with salvation?
      It says those don't inherit the Kingdom.
      Yes, but that passage isn't about the means of salvation. It is presenting that God marked them for damnation.
      It is all God when we talk about the means of salvation.

    7. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
      Romans 2:13
      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
      Matthew 7:21
      Both of the verses you quoted apply to the process of becoming one of the just (or righteous since just and righteous are translations of the same words in Hebrew and Greek) and the just live by faith which means the righteous live by means of faith in God.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    8. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Catholics see Justification as the process of being made righteous by God's grace in the lives of the faithful.

      Catholics see sanctification as being made holy (set apart for service to God in whatever role he calls the faithful to live their lives).
      Yes me too, but you're not 'not saved' in the meantime. Because you got saved you can work it out. You get a new heart instantly. Then your mind, soul gets sanctified. You can say no to the flesh, cause you died w Christ and can be led by the Spirit now.

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    10. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      Yes me too, but you're not 'not saved' in the meantime. Because you got saved you can work it out. You get a new heart instantly. Then your mind, soul gets sanctified. You can say no to the flesh, cause you died w Christ and can be led by the Spirit now.
      Wow amen sister thats the truth!

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    12. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Yes, but that passage isn't about the means of salvation. It is presenting that God marked them for damnation.
      It is all God when we talk about the means of salvation.
      Doing that stuff doesn't mean you're marked for damnation. If you stay in it and never repent yes. That man living w his dads wife repented later, cause he was delivered over to satan.

    13. #29
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      I believe sanctification has both a present tense and future tense. Romans 8:1 says that there is no condemnation for me in Christ. This is present tense. In other words, in God's eyes I am already sanctified because of what Christ has done for us. It allows me to come into God's presence in prayer with confidence knowing that my sins, past, present and future are forgiven. Christ didn't die just for some of my sins. We cleansed me and sanctified me right at that moment when all of my sins were still in the future. But, there is also a present tense. Meaning that I am working out my sanctification by being obedient to his word, living by faith and trusting in Him and forsaking the world and its attractions.

      While the word justification means to me a legal term. Why am I justified. It's like when I was in court two weeks ago and I had a contract and I kept pointing back to the contract saying that I was justified in my actions. The court agreed and said I was justified in what I did based on my contract. We don't have a contract with God, but we have something better which is a covenant. That covenant is in effect when the one who made it died. Jesus is the one who made covenant with us. It's his blood that justifies me legally in God's sight.

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    15. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Imalive View Post
      Doing that stuff doesn't mean you're marked for damnation. If you stay in it and never repent yes. That man living w his dads wife repented later, cause he was delivered over to satan.
      You quoted Jude 4.
      [4]I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that Godís marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives.
      The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

      Look at what Jude says.

      Just as Paul tells us that those who are chosen for adoption were chosen before the foundation of the world (read Ephesians 1) so these men were condemned long before they falsely taught. This fits with Paul's comments in Romans 9 regarding God loving Jacob and hating Esau as well as God hardening the heart of Pharaoh.
      The point is that God is Sovereign in everything he ordains and everything he ordains is working for God's purpose, exactly as God has planned.

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