Justification or Sanctification Differences

Andrew

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I do not know God's work in each persons life. It is possible that many people in the church are attempting to be adopted by God through their own efforts even though God has never chosen to adopt them.
When the non-reconciled see the joy that reconciliation brings they will either get angry or they will attempt to imitate what they see without ever having experienced God grace. How many people are doing this, only God knows. My only role is to preach the truth presented in scripture and to correct false teaching. If God changes the path of a person that is for God to do. I leave it in His very capable hands.
Thats good news. I thank God for all things God does in everyones life.
 

Imalive

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It's false teaching, but God never extends false grace.
You quote in Jude actually supports Romans 9 where Paul informs us that God sovereignly chooses those whom he loves and thus determines those whom he will hate. Notice how Jude tells us that these men were, long ago, marked out for this condemnation. It was by God's sovereign ordination. Wrap your head around that.

Your quotation of Galatians 5 does not determine a person's salvation, but it does identify what actions come from the Spirit of God and what actions come from our corrupt sinful nature. It has nothing to do with justification and salvation.

If someone is entangled in a false teaching it is their own fault. If God has actually adopted them by his unmerited favor, God will pull them out of such false teaching. If God has never adopted them, they will die in their trespasses and sins no matter where they roam.

Nothing to do with salvation?
It says those don't inherit the Kingdom.
 

MoreCoffee

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Catholics see Justification as the process of being made righteous by God's grace in the lives of the faithful.

Catholics see sanctification as being made holy (set apart for service to God in whatever role he calls the faithful to live their lives).
 

MennoSota

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Nothing to do with salvation?
It says those don't inherit the Kingdom.
Yes, but that passage isn't about the means of salvation. It is presenting that God marked them for damnation.
It is all God when we talk about the means of salvation.
 

MoreCoffee

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For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:13

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

Both of the verses you quoted apply to the process of becoming one of the just (or righteous since just and righteous are translations of the same words in Hebrew and Greek) and the just live by faith which means the righteous live by means of faith in God.
 

Imalive

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Catholics see Justification as the process of being made righteous by God's grace in the lives of the faithful.

Catholics see sanctification as being made holy (set apart for service to God in whatever role he calls the faithful to live their lives).

Yes me too, but you're not 'not saved' in the meantime. Because you got saved you can work it out. You get a new heart instantly. Then your mind, soul gets sanctified. You can say no to the flesh, cause you died w Christ and can be led by the Spirit now.
 

Andrew

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Yes me too, but you're not 'not saved' in the meantime. Because you got saved you can work it out. You get a new heart instantly. Then your mind, soul gets sanctified. You can say no to the flesh, cause you died w Christ and can be led by the Spirit now.
Wow amen sister thats the truth!
 

Imalive

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Yes, but that passage isn't about the means of salvation. It is presenting that God marked them for damnation.
It is all God when we talk about the means of salvation.
Doing that stuff doesn't mean you're marked for damnation. If you stay in it and never repent yes. That man living w his dads wife repented later, cause he was delivered over to satan.
 

NewCreation435

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I believe sanctification has both a present tense and future tense. Romans 8:1 says that there is no condemnation for me in Christ. This is present tense. In other words, in God's eyes I am already sanctified because of what Christ has done for us. It allows me to come into God's presence in prayer with confidence knowing that my sins, past, present and future are forgiven. Christ didn't die just for some of my sins. We cleansed me and sanctified me right at that moment when all of my sins were still in the future. But, there is also a present tense. Meaning that I am working out my sanctification by being obedient to his word, living by faith and trusting in Him and forsaking the world and its attractions.

While the word justification means to me a legal term. Why am I justified. It's like when I was in court two weeks ago and I had a contract and I kept pointing back to the contract saying that I was justified in my actions. The court agreed and said I was justified in what I did based on my contract. We don't have a contract with God, but we have something better which is a covenant. That covenant is in effect when the one who made it died. Jesus is the one who made covenant with us. It's his blood that justifies me legally in God's sight.
 

MennoSota

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Doing that stuff doesn't mean you're marked for damnation. If you stay in it and never repent yes. That man living w his dads wife repented later, cause he was delivered over to satan.
You quoted Jude 4.
[4]I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives.
The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Look at what Jude says.

Just as Paul tells us that those who are chosen for adoption were chosen before the foundation of the world (read Ephesians 1) so these men were condemned long before they falsely taught. This fits with Paul's comments in Romans 9 regarding God loving Jacob and hating Esau as well as God hardening the heart of Pharaoh.
The point is that God is Sovereign in everything he ordains and everything he ordains is working for God's purpose, exactly as God has planned.
 

MennoSota

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Josiah

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Josiah

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The Message of the Reformation is MORE Needed Today than 500 Years Ago....


It has been said that Luther started the Reformation but that it never ends…. In some ways, that’s true. And this is because the issues he addressed… the “course corrections” he encouraged… well, they are still around today, still needed today. In some ways, more than in 1517, in many ways the situation in Christianity is WORSE now in terms of understanding/proclaiming the Gospel.


In Luther’s time, people believed and proclaim grace and Christ and faith (often and boldly). They taught and preached and sang about these all the time. Christians still do! The problem back then was that justification (narrow) was a “Grace/Christ plus a whole bunch of stuff you gotta do!” God plus you. What happened on the Cross and on Easter was super nice (downright awesome) but insufficient, unfinished, broken… so that WE gotta fix it, WE gotta finish it, WE gotta make it work, so that WE can enter Heaven.


Five hundred years ago, people said, “Jesus is the Savior BUT you gotta love like God does, you gotta live for others like Jesus did.” Jesus plus. Today, the focus is less on loving and living, and more on decisions and hoops., less on living and more on emotions. “Jesus is the Savior BUT you gotta give your life to Jesus in order to be saved!” “…BUT you gotta correctly respond to an altar call!” “… BUT you gotta surrender the steering wheel of your life!” “…. But you gotta, but you gotta, but you gotta…..” Lots of big “BUTS!”


Essentially what Luther said…. What the Reformation proclaims…. What the Reformation was all about.... what Protestantism orginally was all about was: There are no big buts (not even little buts). Jesus is the Savior (thus, I’m not). Jesus does the saving (thus, I don’t). Jesus IS the Savior. JESUS ('no other name under heaven by which salvation comes - including your own; no one comes to the Father except via Jesus")... IS (factually, really) THE (the one and only, the all-sufficient) SAVIOR (if it has anything to do, Jesus does it..... He's got it). Yup, it IS that simple. No buts about it. That's the message of the Reformation, that's the basis of Protestantism.


One of Jesus’ last words as He was dying for us on the Cross was, “it is finished.” We think He was right about that. We believe Him. What He gives to us is not unfinished (and we gotta complete it), it’s not damaged goods (and we gotta fix it). Sadly, so much of contemporary Christianity all assumes Jesus essentially blew it… Jesus is not the Savior (maybe a possibility-maker or a divine helper… but when we cross through those pearly gates, it will ultimately be because of something WE did or thought or said or decided… what we did to finish and complete that Jesus left undone, unfinished, broken). That’s why the Reformation is just as needed today! For many, the issue is the same: Is Jesus the Savior or am I the Savior of myself (via my love or my decisions or my surrendering or my __________)? Is it Grace/Christ/Faith ALONE or all that PLUS me (and the part that actually matters is the ME part)? The Reformation and (originally Protestantism) rejected all the big buts, all the Jesus PLUS ME stuff, all the "God helps those who help themselves" stuff. But sadly, the big buts are even more proclaimed in our time - often more by "Evangelicals" than by Catholics. Different "buts" but often bigger ones... and more of 'em.



An Illustration:

Consider the Mona Lisa, that very famous masterpiece by the genius Michelangelo hanging in the Louvue. It's insured for about $1,000,000,000.00. That's one BILLION dollars... billion.... with a "b." If you wanted to buy it, that's what it would cost - if it were for sale, which it's not. ANYTHING you might be able to offer for it would be more than laughable, it would be an insult.

But that's irrelevant because the Louvue is GIVING it to you. Yup, G.I.V.I.N.G. it to you. A free gift. The Louvue wants to bless you. And so it comes over and hangs it in your living room! BUT.... you say...... "it's missing something!" "It's broken, it's flawed!" "It's not finished!!!" And so you rush to the garage and get your box of spray paint, lots of cans of paint. And you spray some purple here and some orange there and lots of black all around. "THERE," you proudly announced, "I finished it! I fixed it! Praise be to me!" Would you do that?

LOTS do! God created a masterpiece! Made not by a talented human artist but by the Incarnate Son of God; created not with paint but by His precious blood on the Cross and His powerful resurrection from the Tomb; by His perfect holiness and vicarious death and victorious resurrection! A PRICELESS divine masterpiece worth a whole lot more than one billion bucks! And it's not for sale (and ANYTHING you could offer for it would be worse than laughable, it would be an INSULT). And one of the last things Jesus said as He created this masterpiece was "It is finished" and it is. He did it. He did it right - there's nothing to fix. He did it good - there's nothing to correct. He finished it - there's nothing to add. Just be thankful for the GIFT.

But many look down at Justification.... "It's missing something! It needs fixing! It needs finishing!" And they appoint self to do it. They run for that box of spray paint - spraying some emotion here, some decision there, some surrendering or whatever - trying to correct what Jesus got wrong. "I must add this.... I must do that....." And the MESS IT UP! Making a mockery of the Cross and insulting the Artist/Creator/Giver.

What the Reformation said.... what ORIGINALLY Protestantism proclaimed.... is JUST SAY THANKS! Jesus is the Savior, Jesus does the saving. It's just that simple. YES - a Christian, a Child of God is to do MUCH as now the recipient of the masterpiece, but those are ways to live as the recipient - not monthly payments on a purchase or yet another application of spray paint.

Unfortunately, we still live in a world obsessed with adding spray paint.... fixing and finishing.... trying to buy what's not for sale and what we can't afford. In stead of living as one BLESSED, as one LOVED, as one GIVEN - and now can bless and love and give.


Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide! Soli DEO Gloria!



- Josiah
 
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MennoSota

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There still seems to be much difficulty with people mixing justification up with sanctification. People seem to want to include baptism with justification when it is a part of sanctification.
 

MennoSota

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Justification is the declaring of a person to be just or righteous.

Sanctification is the process of setting something apart as holy.

This leads to the idea of: Already, but not yet.
An adopted child of God is declared righteous by virtue of Christ's substitutional atonement for sin. Yet, we are not yet formed in the image of Christ. The process of being made holy is ongoing, even while we are declared righteous by God.
 

MoreCoffee

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Titus 3:1-11 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, (2) to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men. (3) At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. (4) But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, (5) he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (6) whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, (7) so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. (8) This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. (9) But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. (10) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. (11) You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Never be afraid of doing good. It is what God calls Christians to do.
 

Stravinsk

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Here is the thread to discuss the differences between Justification and Sanctification so that the Purgatory thread can get back on topic.

That's something I let the Pauline Christians argue about, because it's always a discussion with them along with "Am I saved with...", "Am I saved if..." etc. In life, on the internet, wherever - it's always a point of difference and argument.

That being said, I did get excited when I saw this thread!!

Proverbs 17:15 He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, <------------I can trust this
Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him <--------Because I can trust the above I can't trust this!
who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
 

Imalive

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Working out your salvation w fear and trembling is the proof that you're saved. Judge a tree by its fruits. Faith without works is dead.
 

MoreCoffee

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...

That being said, I did get excited when I saw this thread!!

Proverbs 17:15 He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, <------------I can trust this
Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him <--------Because I can trust the above I can't trust this!
who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Modified as shown above I agree with your post. Doing good is good. Doing wicked things is wicked. There's no value in being "saved" if all that means is that a person mouthed the words of the sinner prayer and then went on through the rest of their life saying "I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal saviour" and nothing else. No one is saved completely and finally until the last day when God declares it to be so or not.
 

hedrick

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Justification comes before sanctification. Paul wrote: "We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." Romans 3:28

Whenever someone says, "I got saved when I..." then that person is most likely confusing the two terms and thinking that sanctification is their salvation instead of a consequence of Justification. In terms of speaking of "getting saved" it should always point to Jesus and the cross. Anything following after is our cooperation but falls under sanctification and that includes a response or good works.
I would agree that justification starts before sanctification, but in reality they coexist. Justification is our acceptance by God, being in good standing with him. It is a continuing thing, on which our Christian life (sanctification, though the term isn't used for this in the Bible) is based.

To me the importance of the distinction is that our failures don't change God's commitment to us. Luther's experience of Catholic theology was that when we sin, or if we don't repent perfectly, God abandons us. Distinguishing between God's unchanging commitment to us and our own imperfect response allowed him to trust God.

I think the distinction is real in both Paul and Jesus' teachings (though Jesus of course was working with different concepts). But the Protestant approach has its own danger, that of losing the sense of accountability for how we respond. That is present in both Paul and Jesus as well.
 
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