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    1. #1
      Confessional Lutheran's Avatar
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      Catalonia Declares Independence from Spain

      Catalonia declared independence from Spain on Friday and the Spanish government isn't having it. The Spanish PM, Mariano Rajoy, has fired Carles Puigdemont, Catalonia's president and has effectively disbanded the formerly semi- autonomous region's government. The international response has been overwhelmingly on the side of Spain in this quarrel, but pro- independence Catalans have been keeping their spirits up, while vowing to " peacefully resist" the measures that Spain has taken to reign in their province. This might be a portent of things to come, as other forces of devolution are at work in Europe and are monitoring these events with interest. It might end in a bloody civil war, or Spain might just crack down on the dissidents and return Catalonia to the status quo. Interesting times ahead, regardless. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.5443962e87f4

    2. #2
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Confessional Lutheran View Post
      Catalonia declared independence from Spain on Friday and the Spanish government isn't having it. The Spanish PM, Mariano Rajoy, has fired Carles Puigdemont, Catalonia's president and has effectively disbanded the formerly semi- autonomous region's government. The international response has been overwhelmingly on the side of Spain in this quarrel, but pro- independence Catalans have been keeping their spirits up, while vowing to " peacefully resist" the measures that Spain has taken to reign in their province. This might be a portent of things to come, as other forces of devolution are at work in Europe and are monitoring these events with interest. It might end in a bloody civil war, or Spain might just crack down on the dissidents and return Catalonia to the status quo. Interesting times ahead, regardless. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.5443962e87f4
      I haven't followed this too closely, but it seems that the capitalists are tired of feeding the socialists. Perhaps a dialogue can happen to address the fact that Catalans are being over taxed to support an incompetent Spanish government.

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    4. #3
      Confessional Lutheran's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I haven't followed this too closely, but it seems that the capitalists are tired of feeding the socialists. Perhaps a dialogue can happen to address the fact that Catalans are being over taxed to support an incompetent Spanish government.
      That might be a good idea, but I'm not entirely sure that the government in Madrid cares too much about dialogue at this point: https://www.telesurtv.net/english/ne...1025-0005.html. It looks like Madrid's doing a bunch of saber rattling and one wonders whether or not Spain requires the Catalan province to survive as a nation. If so, that might give the folks in Barcelona a bargaining chip.

    5. #4
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      Three cheers for Catalonia. It's a pity that Madrid will probably try to make them stay as a part of Spain, possibly even by force.

      PS: Catalonia is socialist. Far more so than some other parts of Spain. The declaration of independence has nothing whatever to do with capitalism vs socialism - seeing it that way is seeing things through the chartreuse tinted glasses of current USA politics.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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    7. #5
      Confessional Lutheran's Avatar
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      This might help answer some questions as to why Catalonia wants independence.. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...drid-Barcelona.

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      I've been a tourist in Spain a couple of times (a very good friend of mine lives there). I've been to Catalonia. I've been to Europe several times.

      I think something Americans MAY not fully appreciate is that those countries there that we're so familiar with are actually mixtures of very old and quite distinctive cultures - in which people take great pride. It's really true in most of Europe. Some of these countries we now know are not very old and are the result of some king marrying some queen - and not because of any "marriage" of culture or language. Spain today is a mixture of several such cultures - each with distinctive languages, foods, etc. and with considerable pride in such. I think we're seeing a great revival in such all over Europe - and it's beginning to overwhelm the POLITICAL stuff that held it together as one country. The dissolving of the Soviet Union and of Yugoslovia and Czekoslovakia may have been renewed vision of this. Witness the narrow vote of Scotland awhile back. And of course, with the EU and the Euro, with the decline in military treats, there's less reason to be united in nation states such as Spain.

      I have no idea where this will go..... it might be the wave of the 21st century, we may see several nation/states built up since the middle ages all come unraveled and the rise of many new countries based on old cultures. Or this could be a passing thing and what seemed to be the tread before this - toward one Europe - come about. And maybe even some combo of the two. Hold on to your hats.

      I think the USA is simply too young for anything like this (although witness our biggest crisis - about 100 years after our founding!). But as a southern Californian, I've been to Texas.... and folks, it's different there! It's just a different culture! I like the whole Texas thing..... it's a good culture.... but very different than it is on the southern, urban coast of The People's Republic of California. I've been to rural New England.... and it's different there - a bit of a different culture. But these a faint and slight compared to what often exists within countries in Europe. In spite of now most speak English.... all use their credit cards for money (let the banks work out the technicalities!) and wear jeans and Nike's. Under those SEEMING similarities.... there are deep, old, treasured differences. And people seeing there's nothing significant keeping them from once again being their own independent country (except the rest of that country which may feel rather like many in the USA did in 1861).
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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    11. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Three cheers for Catalonia. It's a pity that Madrid will probably try to make them stay as a part of Spain, possibly even by force.

      PS: Catalonia is socialist. Far more so than some other parts of Spain. The declaration of independence has nothing whatever to do with capitalism vs socialism - seeing it that way is seeing things through the chartreuse tinted glasses of current USA politics.
      Amazing. We cannot keep anti-Americanism out of even the threads that deal with SPANISH politics.

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    13. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Amazing. We cannot keep anti-Americanism out of even the threads that deal with SPANISH politics.
      Yeah, there a re a couple of posters here that add their own anti american slant
      Isaiah 40:31

    14. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I haven't followed this too closely, but it seems that the capitalists are tired of feeding the socialists.
      Three cheers for Catalonia. It's a pity that Madrid will probably try to make them stay as a part of Spain, possibly even by force.

      PS: Catalonia is socialist. Far more so than some other parts of Spain. The declaration of independence has nothing whatever to do with capitalism vs socialism - seeing it that way is seeing things through the chartreuse tinted glasses of current USA politics.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    15. #10
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Three cheers for Catalonia. It's a pity that Madrid will probably try to make them stay as a part of Spain, possibly even by force.

      PS: Catalonia is socialist. Far more so than some other parts of Spain. The declaration of independence has nothing whatever to do with capitalism vs socialism - seeing it that way is seeing things through the chartreuse tinted glasses of current USA politics.
      So the socialists are complaining about being over taxed and supporting dead beats?! That's hilarious.

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