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    Politics - Thread: Privacy

    1. #1
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Privacy

      The USA Department of Justice wants to access Microsoft data about non-USA people held on Microsoft Servers in non-USA territory. What do you think of that?
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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      It would be very beneficial in the struggle against terrorism, wouldnt it?

    3. #3
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      Slippery slope I say
      Isaiah 40:31

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      I guess it depends on what type of data they gather

    6. #5
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      If they established only the identities of people seeking to enter the country from abroad, that would be a big gain. I heard something on the news the other day that 90% of the refugees who have entered Denmark recently are actually not from the countries they claimed and not of the age they claimed. That's also true, by the way, of a lot of the so-called Dreamers currently in the news in the USA.

    7. #6
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      On the one hand, I think that GENERALLY privacy is a good thing, as a matter of principle.

      On the other hand, it's a universal reality that it's not absolute, it's not always the case. For decades, law enforcement has been able to search your home, intercept your mail, tap your phone, all legal under certain conditions. Law enforcement can take your home or work computer and find out what you've been up to, all legal under certain conditions. When you are in the military, your mail can be searched and phone call tapped to be sure you are not disclosing secure information. When I'm at work (which I often am when here at CH), the security knows exactly what I'm doing (good reason to not go to THOSE sites, lol) because I can't disclose work information: I'm welcome to send email, post, etc.... just not disclose work information, and all KNOW that we are being watched. An invision of privacy? Sure. But it's legal and permitted and many feel it's both necessary and good. Can a teen boy harass and threaten to kill my daughter via email and he can do so because email is "private?" Hum. So it's not an absolute "yes" or "no" issue, it's more complex than that.


      Microsoft is ALREADY gathering the information.... if it's gathering the information that's objectionable, then take that up with Microsoft (I'm sure they have legions of attorneys you can talk to). Whether some should have access to that and for what reasons.... that's complex.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      On the one hand, I think that GENERALLY privacy is a good thing, as a matter of principle.

      On the other hand, it's a universal reality that it's not absolute, it's not always the case. For decades, law enforcement has been able to search your home, intercept your mail, tap your phone, all legal under certain conditions. Law enforcement can take your home or work computer and find out what you've been up to, all legal under certain conditions. When you are in the military, your mail can be searched and phone call tapped to be sure you are not disclosing secure information. When I'm at work (which I often am when here at CH), the security knows exactly what I'm doing (good reason to not go to THOSE sites, lol) because I can't disclose work information: I'm welcome to send email, post, etc.... just not disclose work information, and all KNOW that we are being watched. An invision of privacy? Sure. But it's legal and permitted and many feel it's both necessary and good. Can a teen boy harass and threaten to kill my daughter via email and he can do so because email is "private?" Hum. So it's not an absolute "yes" or "no" issue, it's more complex than that.


      Microsoft is ALREADY gathering the information.... if it's gathering the information that's objectionable, then take that up with Microsoft (I'm sure they have legions of attorneys you can talk to). Whether some should have access to that and for what reasons.... that's complex.
      You raise good points regarding exceptions to privacy and I think the crucial thing in common is a credible threat of a crime being committed.

      If someone harasses and threatens your daughter then it is reasonable to suspend their privacy to identify them to make sure they do not carry out their threats. That said there has to be a presumption of innocence and therefore privacy.

      Lots of people endlessly bleat the mantra "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" but it didn't work out too well for Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian who was shot dead on the London Underground and proven to be innocent after many layers of police lies were unravelled. Besides, if we are supposed to be a free nation it makes more sense for the government to have to demonstrate why it feels the need to spy on me before it is allowed to access any of my personal information.

      I remember reading a saying that the average American commits at least two or three federal crimes per year, in most cases without even realising they are breaking the law. I gather there are moves afoot to tweak the legal code such that criminal intent must be established before convicting someone of a crime. In the meantime a dragnet approach that is unlikely to do much to help the fight against terrorism (when hunting a needle in a haystack the last thing you need is regular truckloads of hay being added) but could potentially incriminate someone who is merely going about their almost entirely lawful business genuinely unaware that some trivial matter of their life breaches the federal legal code.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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      Incidentally, there is another discussion lurking among all this which relates to the power of the technology giants. WIth Microsoft, Faceache, Google etc all gathering previously unimaginable amounts of data about us there should be a discussion regarding what is done with the data. The kind of information people freely post on Faceache is a marketer's dream - it's widely reckoned that, for many people, Faceache's computers can figure out what mood they are in at any given moment. I find that truly terrifying, quite aside from the vulnerabilities people expose if they are in a really dark place it provides an obvious "in" for marketers to figure someone is feeling down and take advantage of their weakness to sell them something "to help cheer them up".
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    12. #9
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      The issue is not that Microsoft gathers information, everybody already knows that just like everybody knows that google gathers information, the issue is that the USA government through the Department of Justice wants to apply USA laws to people who are not USA residents by gathering data from overseas Microsoft servers. Microsoft is fighting against the DoJ claim.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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      How does that represent an application of US law to other countries?

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