Church Hiring? Does the process need a Change?

Lamb

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That's my issue. I can't get experience if I don't have a job. I can't get a job without a degree. It's a paradox

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You can do volunteering for some experience and definitely finish that degree.
 

Albion

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Honestly I have no clue, on my resume I have my education listed, my ministry experience this far, and hobbies. Nothing listed should be seen as a kiss of death in my opinion, unless they think music and photography are Satan's hobbies
Thanks. That probably isn't a concern, then. When you said that they take a look at the resume and that's the last you hear from them, I wondered if there were some red flag raised by something or other on it. Probably not.

The schools I've gone too are affiliated with non-denominational churches in the restoration movement. I would assume most churches I've applied to would know that, since their jobs are listed on the websites of the schools.
And here you are speaking of the Churches of Christ, Disciples, and possibly a few others, I assume. IF so, that shoots down another passing thought I expressed earlier, that you had no foot in the door to any congregation of any denomination, meaning that you were confined to unaffiliated, independent congregations, i.e. "non-denominational" ones.

So here would be another thought...

If the churches referred to above are the ones you have been applying to, and you present yourself as in step with their theology (Restorationist), is it possible that instead of doing it all by yourself, you could work with some placement service affiliated with these churches?

In the more hierarchical churches, aspiring pastors usually find positions through such agencies and not just by sending a resume to various congregations. Given the local autonomy that characterizes many of the congregations that are part of the Restorationist movement, that may be less the case, I know, but its a thought.
 

J.Money

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Thanks. That probably isn't a concern, then. When you said that they take a look at the resume and that's the last you hear from them, I wondered if there were some red flag raised by something or other on it. Probably not.

And here you are speaking of the Churches of Christ, Disciples, and possibly a few others, I assume. IF so, that shoots down another passing thought I expressed earlier, that you had no foot in the door to any congregation of any denomination, meaning that you were confined to unaffiliated, independent congregations, i.e. "non-denominational" ones.

So here would be another thought...

If the churches referred to above are the ones you have been applying to, and you present yourself as in step with their theology (Restorationist), is it possible that instead of doing it all by yourself, you could work with some placement service affiliated with these churches?

In the more hierarchical churches, aspiring pastors usually find positions through such agencies and not just by sending a resume to various congregations. Given the local autonomy that characterizes many of the congregations that are part of the Restorationist movement, that may be less the case, I know, but its a thought.
Good thoughts to consider. Thanks for the help!


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Imalive

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Maybe it's your name. LOL.
Once a guy offered to help w our church. My ex got 700 a month if he was lucky as a pastor in the golden times before the crisis. The guy wanted to get 2000 a month and he was absolutely serious.
Lately my ex went to a big evangelical church that looked for an extra elder and he wanted to get a normal income. Then he was surprised they didn't want him. Maybe they want you if you do it for free. I don't understand why he said how much he wanted to earn. Well I get it, he's sick and tired of always having to borrow some bucks from his ex and always working for free. But never do that in a church, then they don't want you. And God just didn't want him to go there. What's the use of getting a paid job in a church if God hasn't called you to serve there. Elijah had to go to a widow who'd take care of him.
Even w a normal job. I'm a cartographer, I sent 20 letters when I was 24. No response. Then I just took a job as a coffee miss. My ex said: You should just believe. So I did and a week later I got a job. Still work there.
 

J.Money

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Maybe it's your name. LOL.
Once a guy offered to help w our church. My ex got 700 a month if he was lucky as a pastor in the golden times before the crisis. The guy wanted to get 2000 a month and he was absolutely serious.
Lately my ex went to a big evangelical church that looked for an extra elder and he wanted to get a normal income. Then he was surprised they didn't want him. Maybe they want you if you do it for free. I don't understand why he said how much he wanted to earn. Well I get it, he's sick and tired of always having to borrow some bucks from his ex and always working for free. But never do that in a church, then they don't want you. And God just didn't want him to go there. What's the use of getting a paid job in a church if God hasn't called you to serve there. Elijah had to go to a widow who'd take care of him.
Even w a normal job. I'm a cartographer, I sent 20 letters when I was 24. No response. Then I just took a job as a coffee miss. My ex said: You should just believe. So I did and a week later I got a job. Still work there.
I think someone earlier mentioned that there's a possibility they see Masters work on my resume and assume I'll ask for a higher salary. To be honest I haven't gotten to a point to talk about finances with churches yet. I'll just keep waiting and trusting this is the plan for now

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tango

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I think someone earlier mentioned that there's a possibility they see Masters work on my resume and assume I'll ask for a higher salary. To be honest I haven't gotten to a point to talk about finances with churches yet. I'll just keep waiting and trusting this is the plan for now

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Why not try sending a couple of resumes out that don't mention the masters?

Theoretically speaking being a pastor is a calling rather than a career, although these days a lot of churches want the pastor to be full time and as such have to offer at least some form of salary. As soon as the subject of salary is introduced it rapidly becomes more like a career even though in many (most?) cases the salary on offer for a full time pastor when compared to the expectations is such that nobody in their right mind would be in it for the money.

Your profile says you're 24 - do you think churches might be concerned that you've gone out and got lots of paper qualifications before testing the waters to make sure this is right for you, and will expect the kind of salary associated with the senior pastor when you'd be joining them at the level of a junior pastor? I realise this is something of "I wouldn't start from here" but might it be better to look to get into ministry and then look to add to your paper qualifications once you've been doing it a while?
 

J.Money

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Why not try sending a couple of resumes out that don't mention the masters?

Theoretically speaking being a pastor is a calling rather than a career, although these days a lot of churches want the pastor to be full time and as such have to offer at least some form of salary. As soon as the subject of salary is introduced it rapidly becomes more like a career even though in many (most?) cases the salary on offer for a full time pastor when compared to the expectations is such that nobody in their right mind would be in it for the money.

Your profile says you're 24 - do you think churches might be concerned that you've gone out and got lots of paper qualifications before testing the waters to make sure this is right for you, and will expect the kind of salary associated with the senior pastor when you'd be joining them at the level of a junior pastor? I realise this is something of "I wouldn't start from here" but might it be better to look to get into ministry and then look to add to your paper qualifications once you've been doing it a while?
Yeah that's always an option. I have around 3 years of experience so far through internships, working as a camp director, and being a youth minister at a church, however the church was 2-3 hours away so I left due to distance. I feel like it would be misleading to not put my masters work on the resume, but then again it is an option to try.

Sometimes I really just want to ask churches why they never considered getting in contact with me. I don't want to sound arrogant, however I feel like 3 years of experience, a B.A. in youth ministry and preaching, some Masters work, and probably more than 7 years of volunteering would appeal to churches.

I guess I'm more discouraged than anything because it feels like I've done so much and sure I'm still young but I know plenty of guys my age and younger in full time ministry. It's hard to cope with that; ministry is where I want to be and I see others doing it, but it's just not working out for me right now.

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Albion

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I would not think that salary is the deterrent. Employers generally look for the right candidate and make the job offer expecting him to go for whatever it is, even if less than the aspirant might have hoped for. If he does not accept it, they look to the next prospect. In todays market, plenty of employees take what they can get in order to land the position, and employers know this.

On the other hand, shaking up the resume may be worth doing in any case. Try playing up experience, itemize some of the skills you have developed by your work experience...and pass off the Masters work with a simple notation, for instance stating that you have graduated from ______ College with a BA in youth ministry and preaching and also completed some additional (or advanced) coursework.
 

tango

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Yeah that's always an option. I have around 3 years of experience so far through internships, working as a camp director, and being a youth minister at a church, however the church was 2-3 hours away so I left due to distance. I feel like it would be misleading to not put my masters work on the resume, but then again it is an option to try.

Sometimes I really just want to ask churches why they never considered getting in contact with me. I don't want to sound arrogant, however I feel like 3 years of experience, a B.A. in youth ministry and preaching, some Masters work, and probably more than 7 years of volunteering would appeal to churches.

I guess I'm more discouraged than anything because it feels like I've done so much and sure I'm still young but I know plenty of guys my age and younger in full time ministry. It's hard to cope with that; ministry is where I want to be and I see others doing it, but it's just not working out for me right now.

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Does your resume focus on the experience you have at least as much as the paper qualifications? If you're looking for a position as a youth minister it's probably worth just as much, if not more, to see that you have experience doing it than it is to see you've done a lot of academic study. Dealing with young people really requires a heart for young people and that's not something that academic study can ever give you. If people see you've got a piece of paper saying you spent years studying youth ministry but don't see that you have a heart for young people they won't look any further.

If you send a resume to a church and get no response, why not call the minister to ask if s/he has a few minutes to talk with you? If it's clear you respect their decision but would appreciate some guidance as to what it was about you that didn't tick the right boxes, maybe they will give you a few pointers. That would be worth far more than lots of words on a web site.
 

Albion

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I concur with Tango on that point about phoning the pastor or whoever is doing the interviewing. It sounds at first like a pushy move, but I'm told that it isn't seen that way these days.

And one more thing. You said that you've been unsuccessful with 30 applications. Years ago, that would be quite a bad sign, but I know of a number of young people seeking positions recently such as you are doing, and they became discouraged after 200 (!) unsuccessful applications. Just the most ordinary, entry-level jobs with respectable companies draw hundreds and hundreds of applications and, for all you know, you were not successful but -- if you only knew -- you were in their top ten applicants out of a hundred or more.

The point is that it may be necessary to just keep on applying until you win out and, in the meantime, consider the turn-downs or no replies to be just part of the process.
 

Lamb

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Sometimes I really just want to ask churches why they never considered getting in contact with me.

If it's been recent then you should call the churches and ask the interviewer if he could shed some light on what you could have done better during the interview or any other reason why they chose not to hire you. They'll gladly give you advice.
 

Josiah

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I've applied for lots of positions and never heard from them..... Happens..... Don't take it personally. It's NICE when someone (somehow) gets back and lets you know you didn't get the job but....
 
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