Voting your moral values.

Confessional Lutheran · Sep 28, 2017

What did Trump do to Australia to make a couple of the posters here so angry at him? I saw the same thing on Facebook with some friends who live in Canada. How is he fouling everything up for everybody??

Albion · Sep 28, 2017

You can see it on other forums, too. Some countries simply have a weak self-image, so they substitute an anti-American attitude.

Stravinsk · Sep 28, 2017

Albion said:
You can see it on other forums, too. Some countries simply have a weak self-image, so they substitute an anti-American attitude.

How far can I roll my eyes.

I have the benefit of seeing the American psyche from the inside as well as outside - having been a resident for over 20 years. The Average American's ego and Nationalism is carefully and skillfully crafted from near birth to believe they are the "best" people on earth.

Stravinsk · Sep 28, 2017

Confessional Lutheran said:
What did Trump do to Australia to make a couple of the posters here so angry at him? I saw the same thing on Facebook with some friends who live in Canada. How is he fouling everything up for everybody??

I'm not angry at Trump at all. As far as I'm concerned, he's just doing what he's told and/or being influenced by the large finance centers that really rule the USA.

That being said - none of us wants war. Australia, for instance has this horrible habit of following the USA into wars. No, we do not want that.

Confessional Lutheran · Sep 28, 2017

Stravinsk said:
I'm not angry at Trump at all. As far as I'm concerned, he's just doing what he's told and/or being influenced by the large finance centers that really rule the USA.

That being said - none of us wants war. Australia, for instance has this horrible habit of following the USA into wars. No, we do not want that.

Nor should you. It pains me to hear that your soldiers fight in wars that involve nations nowhere near Australia itself. No doubt Trump is being influenced by his own financial interests, but we the American people knew that he was a self- interested businessman before we elected him. An outsider who promised to " drain the swamp" from its accumulated corruption has introduced more of the same into the system. We had unrealistic dreams and thought that Trump was just the chap to make them come true. Now, we're seeing him keep what promises he can keep and ignoring the ones he can't, just like every other president before him has. It just is awful because he does influence the rest of the world, for good or ill.

Albion · Sep 28, 2017

Australia followed the UK into World Wars I and II, not the US. And the Americans saved Australia during WWII, if truth be told.

Stravinsk · Sep 28, 2017

Confessional Lutheran said:
Nor should you. It pains me to hear that your soldiers fight in wars that involve nations nowhere near Australia itself. No doubt Trump is being influenced by his own financial interests, but we the American people knew that he was a self- interested businessman before we elected him. An outsider who promised to " drain the swamp" from its accumulated corruption has introduced more of the same into the system. We had unrealistic dreams and thought that Trump was just the chap to make them come true. Now, we're seeing him keep what promises he can keep and ignoring the ones he can't, just like every other president before him has. It just is awful because he does influence the rest of the world, for good or ill.

It is more than that. The USA has not really been independent since Woodrow Wilson. To some extent - arguably Lincoln. Australia is the same, but with much less influence due to the smaller size (population) and GDP. The financial powers I refer to isn't Trump, they are far far more rich and powerful than him. They are the same ones that are the subject of some of Adolf Hitler's speeches (he called them an "international clique") and a world war was fought over. They own most of the major banks around the world and most of the media.

I don't know if you're a reader - but here are some book recommends:

The Creature from Jekyll Island - G. Edward Griffin
Tragedy and Hope - Carol Quigley

Confessional Lutheran · Sep 28, 2017

Stravinsk said:
It is more than that. The USA has not really been independent since Woodrow Wilson. To some extent - arguably Lincoln. Australia is the same, but with much less influence due to the smaller size (population) and GDP. The financial powers I refer to isn't Trump, they are far far more rich and powerful than him. They are the same ones that are the subject of some of Adolf Hitler's speeches (he called them an "international clique") and a world war was fought over. They own most of the major banks around the world and most of the media.

I don't know if you're a reader - but here are some book recommends:

The Creature from Jekyll Island - G. Edward Griffin
Tragedy and Hope - Carol Quigley

Thank you. I love to read. I'll look at these books.

Albion · Sep 28, 2017

They're still available through the John Birch Society, I believe.

Stravinsk · Sep 28, 2017

Albion said:
Australia followed the UK into World Wars I and II, not the US. And the Americans saved Australia during WWII, if truth be told.

Australia followed the US into Vietnam and the war against Iraq.

Insofar as "saving" Australia from Japan:

Japan wouldn't have involved itself against the Allied powers had the US not cut off it's oil. This little bit of history is often left out of US school education. The fiction of the US saving the world from German aggression is a result of US state propaganda. Doesn't "National Socialism" mean that it pertains to the nation state, not the whole world? Duh. And yet the majority of people think that Hitler started the war by invading Poland and was going to "take over the world!" Joke. Most of them do not even know of the multiple peace offers made to Britain. In any case - the war started long before the actual violence - with military and economic sanctions against Germany, mass poverty and corruption in that country after WW1.

But yes, I know - public history in the USA doesn't teach those things. You get pounded with the "Holocaust" and Anne Frank.

Confessional Lutheran · Sep 28, 2017

It looks like " Tragedy and Hope" is on a pdf. I'm downloading it now.

MoreCoffee · Sep 28, 2017

Confessional Lutheran said:
What did Trump do to Australia to make a couple of the posters here so angry at him? I saw the same thing on Facebook with some friends who live in Canada. How is he fouling everything up for everybody??

He tweets too much. And he holds his right hand index finger against his thumb when he is talking and it looks really silly. And he manages to say very stupid things like "I have a tax plan. It's the best tax plan" and he still hasn't explained it after a year or more since he said he had the plan.

Impeach Donald.

It has a nice ring to it

:smirk:

Besides if Evangelicals think that voting for Donald was the Moral values ting to do then they want their heads examined

Albion · Sep 28, 2017

We'll decide who governs our own country, thank you. We already did that, last November.

MoreCoffee · Sep 28, 2017

Uh huh, sure he has.

Confessional Lutheran · Sep 28, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
He tweets too much. And he holds his right hand index finger against his thumb when he is talking and it looks really silly. And he manages to say very stupid things like "I have a tax plan. It's the best tax plan" and he still hasn't explained it after a year or more since he said he had the plan.

Impeach Donald.

It has a nice ring to it

:smirk:

Besides if Evangelicals think that voting for Donald was the Moral values ting to do then they want their heads examined

The thing about that was that during his campaign, Trump identified very strongly with the Christian Right, had photos taken of him praying and speaking out about his Presbyterian faith, e.g. http://www.christianpost.com/news/d...ntative-of-faith-if-elected-president-141752/ and even having a photo of himself taken with people praying over him.

He sold himself as a strong Christian very well and convinced a lot of people that the Christian faith would be given priority in his government. I'm not going to bash the man because, well, I knew he was a businessman and hoped he'd use that savvy for the good of our economy.

JRT · Sep 28, 2017

Albion said:
We'll decide who governs our own country, thank you. We already did that, last November.

I find it incomprehensible that so many Christians ignored their own moral values to vote for that man.

Albion · Sep 28, 2017

Confessional Lutheran said:
The thing about that was that during his campaign, Trump identified very strongly with the Christian Right, had photos taken of him praying and speaking out about his Presbyterian faith, e.g. http://www.christianpost.com/news/d...ntative-of-faith-if-elected-president-141752/ and even having a photo of himself taken with people praying over him.

He sold himself as a strong Christian very well and convinced a lot of people that the Christian faith would be given priority in his government. I'm not going to bash the man because, well, I knew he was a businessman and hoped he'd use that savvy for the good of our economy. Now, I discover that he's another puppet with higher ups yanking his strings. America seems to have been bought and sold.

I have to disagree with that. I don't think it is correct to say that he sold himself as a "strong Christian" (the way Hillary tried to do). He is known to attend church only occasionally, doesn't profess to be a Bible expert or some sort of theologian or anything like that. But he did profess to be a Christian, did value the input of religious leaders, and promised to reverse various measures that Obama used in order to suppress religious liberty. More important, he has come through on some key changes in this regard.

Confessional Lutheran · Sep 28, 2017

Albion said:
I have to disagree with that. I don't think it is correct to say that he sold himself as a "strong Christian" (the way Hillary tried to do). He is known to attend church only occasionally, doesn't profess to be a Bible expert or some sort of theologian or anything like that. But he did profess to be a Christian, did value the input of religious leaders, and promised to reverse various measures that Obama used in order to suppress religious liberty. More important, he has come through on some key changes in this regard.

Credit where credit's due, I can agree with that. He actually has come through for us in that regard.

Albion · Sep 28, 2017

JRT said:
I find it incomprehensible that so many Christians ignored their own moral values to vote for that man.

That's your right. He still won the election and is our president. The non-stop effort of the losing party and its supporters to undo the decision of the voters ought to alarm every American who, like you and I, were raised to believe in and value the democratic form of government.

tango · Sep 30, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
Hillary Clinton was not the only Candidate on the ballot besides Donald.

She was the only other candidate with even the remotest chance of winning. In an election where many people despised their own candidate it's hard to see as strong a vote for third party candidates when it could potentially mean that someone you dislike even more than your own candidate might be elected.

I know third party candidates stay that way until people vote for them but at the same time when an election has such disliked characters as Trump and Clinton on offer you have to be really brave to vote third party when it might mean not even getting the lesser of two evils in power.

Voting your moral values.

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