Gift of Tongues

Albion said:

All right, but I did ask a question in posts 56 and 58 that never got an answer, so that's where I remain. I know that you've had a new experience and it's been good for you, but when we evaluate the highly controversial issue of tongues-speaking, it doesn't seem sufficient to me to simply dismiss the question of the genuineness of today's tongues by saying that they look kinda like the tongues we see referred to in scripture.

We wouldn't do that with all the other practices and doctrines of other denominations. We quite reasonably ask if they are Scriptural, not just popular or exciting. Whichever side of the issue a person is on, we want to know if infant baptism is right or not, if praying to saints is proper to do, if the communion bread is changed into Christ's real flesh, etc. etc. But when it comes to tongues-speaking, it seems that no one is supposed to question whether it's a genuine gift or not according to any of the half-dozen or so competing theories offered by Pentecostal Christians.

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I thought I answered it when I posted how Paul describes tongues as drawing in unbelievers and becoming saved, they become believers and can testify that this IS of God no question about it. In my personal experience I likewise know for sure it isnt just a feeling. When that preacher put his hands on me my mouth flowed out an unknown language with no mind to it, that is not natural it doesnt just happen. I cant agree that tongues can be practised at home like you might have heard, i never spoke or tried to speak in tongues in fact I never even really looked into it until after it happened, i wasnt prepared but I know it was Holy because I walked out a completely changed man when before I was a believer unrepented but then I felt judgment come upon me and im freed of a filthy lifestyle that i had lived

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A doubting Thomas needs a physical experience, wisdom comes from God so I have no wise words to say to get you to believe, seek and ye shall find. Amen

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Albion said:

You might have needed one, but that's not the case with most people. It's the Gospel that won the world for Christ.

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True, but what is faith without works or charity? Christ did save us by his work on the cross, but a blind and lost person doesnt just pick up the good book and start reading, dont question my works as i wont question your works, God knows thy works and charity. The op was addressed to speakers of tongues as i assumed many were and now know, no, many arent. Yet you all remained mindful as the conversation became food for thought.


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psalms 91 said:

Christ also performed miracles and good deeds, in other words the gospel in action, and without action such as love then it is just words, we do nothing expect be obedient it is the spirit that moves us to love and moves the individual to the point of acceptance of the gospel

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Charity was spoken of after the resurrection, is charity a form of works?

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Albion said:

Frankly, I don't think there's any call for that kind of talk ("it is fear"..."those who ripped out of their bibles"..."deny the simple truth of the bible").

When a brother asks if we know--and how we know--if ANY devotion or worship act is genuine or just an imitation, it deserves a straightforward answer with evidence and without the kind of language I read here.

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Believe me tho, its not nearly as offensive as saying that my experience was unbiblical and unholy. Thats like me saying that scripture alone is also a practise of muslims. But what was spoken of regarding my experience implies
A. Something unholy got in me and caused me to speak in tongues
B. 1 Corinthians 14:23-25 is invalid (oh the irony)

Answer me this..
How can something unholy enter a man causing them to be more holy if it be not the mysterious work of God ?

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psalms 91 said:

I would say God inspired, not necessarily a work but in practical forms it is many times. It was Christs compassion that fed the 5000 along with a miracle and I am sure that many believed ecause of that act of love. The church as we once knew it is dying and if we as a body do not learn to love and reach out to the alcoholics, drug addicts , prostitues and all the rest then they will not come. It is relationship that draws people and relationship that we should be tryng to foster in converts. A life of service to others is what we should all be striving for for in the church leaders are servants and leaders should demonstrate the love of Christ as we all should but especially leaders.

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This is exactly why the Body of Christ needs no reformations but a communication and let it be known.
The problem the church may be facing today is exactly what Paul was warning before. We are becoming divided and are entrusted by tradition in our own divisions.
Open up to eachother and fall back in love with his church. The division is by man and the history that man has made.
The babes of Christ are now more widespread and abundant in number than ever before, the population is increased but our entrusted tradition of denomination has it broken or is killing the church? (as such was mentioned earlier) why do we attack members of the body of Christ when a killer is being loosened in the midst?
I am not pentecostal but a Christian who walks among the churches and was born lost. I am thirty three years old now and from one assembly to another I have felt love from its members but competition in its message. Is this really how it works or should we all KNOW that we ARE the CHURCH?
I was raised Catholic and was confirmed by which I received a letter from my parents of whom I lied to, and on the night of confirmation I was given this letter. I felt it to be a poor attempt in retrospect, but at the time I felt no judgment and at times I am only remembered of another time.
I could not see when I was a child in the church, literally, and the cherubim from the back looked to me as horror movie beasts. It scared me to no end. Then I was invited to a Baptist church by a friend around 5th or 6th grade and they read about Jesus when he proclaimed that ye better off ripping out your eyes and limbs... How was I to understand this church? They never explained it as far as my memory is concerned, my child had not yet a concept of evil.
After this I grew up against church, I read in this discussion someone mention a pentecostal experience as a child that traumatised them so it must be the church experience that turns it's children away. These are the little ones, pure at heart and in mercy.
If through the eyes of a glass darkly, do we dismiss our works and not "live for another" as we should, shall we fall away and turn to death, expecting a miracle?
End times is in regards to the moment of Christ's ascension, as the book of Acts proclaims it.
Perhaps the end times now is a sign to rethink and give effort to save the little ones in which are so discouraged among us.
Admit that the world is to become a haven in Jesus name and prepare for THE kingdom of Christ on earth upon his arrival.
Love is the strongest and greatest gift free to the Church through the son of God himself.
I pray that we as children of God fall back in love and prepare thy kingdom and not of idle hands
Amen.




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TurtleHare said:

Are we talking about Christ saving us or our living our lives now that he's got us saved because they're distinct and which is it for you, Christ alone or Christ and works for you to be saved? Ya know if you say Christ and works that it's boasting and it's not works so that no man boasts. Now if you're meaning only our living life after that conversion then why was getting saved brought up in the first place here? Hmm?

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From the very moment you proclaim "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" its by the Holy Spirit therefore you are well on your way to further your discipleship and charity within his Church.
Charity according to the bible is not fund raising or has anything to do with money.
Luke 9:3
Acts 3:6 etc.
If you receive a gift from God then freely you must give. To heal the sick and feed the poor and also to save unbelievers.
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Mathew 10:7
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
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Paul tells us to excell in these gifts.
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1 Corinthians 14:12 -21

Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men ofother tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

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So what would I be boasting of if I was merely speaking to thin air? I had no interpreter, what is it to brag about if I spoke in a language no one can understand? It came with no edification for the church. We have interpreters and I have heard them interpret other tongues.
It is taken very seriously as in they only allow 2 or 3 to be interpreted at a time, the preacher may even stay silent or pray to God in the corner of the church.
Its a small church, small room with 20 to 30 people assembles at a time.
I do live in a small town.
If I am to excell I shouldn't be anxious of it to the point of asking an interpreter, taking notes from Paul I should pray that God allows an interpretation to take place.
I've learned much from our "debate" and no longer take offense.
God bless my friends


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