Gift of Tongues

psalms 91 · Sep 21, 2017

MoreCoffee said:
You are likely right about your abilities yet they do make verification of your claim very difficult or possibly impossible. I have heard many people "speak in tongues" and done so myself yet I have never been convinced that what was uttered was a language that could be translated. My experience does not disprove that genuine "speaking in tongues" has happened but it also does not offer any significant evidence in its favour. The matter is yet to be properly tested and properly verified. The holy scriptures urge the faithful to "test the spirits to see if they are from God". That is good advice.

For this is the message you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. We must not be like Cain who was from the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous. Do not be astonished, brothers and sisters, that the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life because we love one another. Whoever does not love abides in death. All who hate a brother or sister are murderers, and you know that murderers do not have eternal life abiding in them. We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us--and we ought to lay down our lives for one another. How does God's love abide in anyone who has the world's goods and sees a brother or sister in need and yet refuses help? Little children, let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action. And by this we will know that we are from the truth and will reassure our hearts before him whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have boldness before God; and we receive from him whatever we ask, because we obey his commandments and do what pleases him. And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. All who obey his commandments abide in him, and he abides in them. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit that he has given us. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world. Little children, you are from God, and have conquered them; for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore what they say is from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1 John 3:11-4:6
The warning is one we ought to take to heart. Many false prophets have walked among us in our times. Many claiming to be apostles and seers and to know secrets and to foresee the end of days. It seems that one is claiming that Saturday will be the end. Others have claimed other dates. The faithful are warned to be careful of such claims.

How do you judge spiritual or test the spirits as you say? I say it is not physically or any such proof but rather by the spirit, spiritual judges spiritual. Now many do not like that answer because they do not hear the spirit yet it is there

psalms 91 · Sep 21, 2017

DHoffmann said:
Very true, I now have reconsidered and am no longer in the office of trying to project an experience as proof in scripture. It makes sense to my understand and I might just refer to it is my personal prayer language from now on as it has put order back in my life and im done with all confusion, if it helps me walk with the Lord then so be it im thankful for "it". Maybe its God helping me to pray because I have had difficulties trying to pray "right" personally.

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As I said erestrict the thread to those who believe, much more fruitful discussion I think

Albion · Sep 21, 2017

It is a mistake to say or insinuate that those Christians who do not accept this particular oddity in the way that it's believed in by a minority of Christians are either non-believers or don't have the Holy Spirit, just as it would be wrong to suggest such a thing in the case of Christians who don't believe in the Real Presence or infant baptism.

psalms 91 · Sep 21, 2017

Albion said:
It is a mistake to say or insinuate that those Christians who do not accept this particular oddity in the way that it's believed in by a minority of Christians are either non-believers or don't have the Holy Spirit, just as it would be wrong to suggest such a thing in the case of Christians who don't believe in the Real Presence or infant baptism.

I do bnot say that but I do say that only spiritual can interpret spiritual and many do not hear the voice of the spirit, that is a fact. Does not mean they do not have the spirit or are any less, just that for whatever reason they do not hear.

MoreCoffee · Sep 21, 2017

psalms 91 said:
How do you judge spiritual or test the spirits as you say? I say it is not physically or any such proof but rather by the spirit, spiritual judges spiritual. Now many do not like that answer because they do not hear the spirit yet it is there

You test the spirits with the tests mentioned in 1 John 3:11-4:6. There must be love, service, truth, and the unrestrained proclamation that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. The spirits that one hears - being spoken expressions - cannot be from God if they do not do these things.

Imalive · Sep 21, 2017

Albion said:
So, it would easy enough for you to repeat what you said on one of these occasions?? Or to say--in that language--something you were asked to say...the Lord's Prayer, for example??

Doing that would go far towards convincing the doubters.

Why is that his task?
Atheists also always say that. Grow a limb, lemme see God is true. My answer is always: I'm trying, I'm trying. Have some patience LOL.
If a christian wants to know if tongues is real or from God or miracles, let em do some effort and ask God themselves or ask Him for that gift that's in the Bible. Easy to ask someone else to do the work.

Albion · Sep 21, 2017

Imalive said:
Why is that his task?

Quite clearly, he's been attempting to explain why his experience should be understood to be a miracle. I haven't put a dare before him but, rather, a question which--depending upon the answer--might have verified his claim about the nature of the events he described to us.

Atheists also always say that. Grow a limb, lemme see God is true.

Not the same thing at all and, anyway, there aren't any atheists demanding anything of him on this thread.

Andrew · Sep 21, 2017

Albion said:
Quite clearly, he's been attempting to explain why his experience should be understood to be a miracle. I haven't put a dare before him but, rather, a question which--depending upon the answer--might have verified his claim about the nature of the events he described to us.

Not the same thing at all and, anyway, there aren't any atheists demanding anything of him on this thread.

My eyes were closed, a wave like rushing water filled my body, my mouth started going off in tongues quite rapidly. I can hear my chatter and feel my mouth talking and when i asked God what I was praying I heard in plain english a stream of prayers going out to individuals to watch over them and so on but it was also automatic, fueled by the spirit, one cannot possibly understand two conversations at once, so i cannot possibly relate the two, you get it? I could record my voice but i cant record my thoughts verbatim to get any kind of translation out of it, it distracts my prayers so i just listen

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TurtleHare · Sep 21, 2017

DHoffmann said:
My eyes were closed, a wave like rushing water filled my body, my mouth started going off in tongues quite rapidly. I can hear my chatter and feel my mouth talking and when i asked God what I was praying I heard in plain english a stream of prayers going out to individuals to watch over them and so on but it was also automatic, fueled by the spirit, one cannot possibly understand two conversations at once, so i cannot possibly relate the two, you get it? I could record my voice but i cant record my thoughts verbatim to get any kind of translation out of it, it distracts my prayers so i just listen

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Sure that's legit cuz tongues in the bible gave praise and thanksgiving to God and what you described didn't follow any biblical pattern and that makes me suspect and it's not that I think you're outright lying but that you wanted to be on some wavelength with God that you want to believe that it's tongues.

Andrew · Sep 21, 2017

TurtleHare said:
Sure that's legit cuz tongues in the bible gave praise and thanksgiving to God and what you described didn't follow any biblical pattern and that makes me suspect and it's not that I think you're outright lying but that you wanted to be on some wavelength with God that you want to believe that it's tongues.

This was at a prayer meeting, not typical worship, though it did edify myself.
Before we start the meeting we make a list of names and what matter needs healing.
Its very intimate and dim lit, very respectful and personal with God. One person leads the prayer and the movement of the spirit gets pretty thick. A lot is happening now too, a number of deaths and sickness and houses lost and so on. So your definition of praise and thanks seems a bit off from mine. I asked what I was praying and I got what I asked, God can do anything and we know that, much thanksgiving and praise was going on and yes people do get healed we have a testimonial from a bed ridden man sick with disease praising the glory of God up and and down the pews when doctors said he would die soon. He was there I shook his hand. I am not trying to turn my experience into something biblical and im not trying to impress anyone with miracle talk, miracles happen but it seems never enough for people. Moses parted the red sea and let it close in and drown the Egyptians, then what happened? They started worshipping a golden bull.
Im sure anyone here who speaks in tongues has a different understanding than what i do... but so what.
Too much "mote and beams" going on here.
Very unfruitful to say that "i want to be on some wavelength with God"... Who cares you cant even agree that tongues even exist why care of a description, I know its from God.

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Andrew · Sep 21, 2017

I request this thread be closed now. 21 pages is enough and most of its just me trying too hard in defending my faith when really I don't have to.
Jesus would heal a person and tell that person "dont tell anyone".
Now I know why lol
Anyway lets close this unhealthy thread please

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Lamb · Sep 22, 2017

DHoffmann said:
I request this thread be closed now. 21 pages is enough and most of its just me trying too hard in defending my faith when really I don't have to.
Jesus would heal a person and tell that person "dont tell anyone".
Now I know why lol
Anyway lets close this unhealthy thread please

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It's your prerogative to discontinue participating in the thread now that you've let the members know you won't be responding. Our site is different than some others you've been a member of since here the threads do not belong to the OP but to the community since there is more than one member responding with contributions. So our policy of closing threads happens when there is excessive flaming in most instances unless it's a staff thread and the topic goes off topic, not by OP request. This has been the site owner's request from the beginning.

MoreCoffee · Sep 22, 2017

All tings considered and taking into account the heart felt beliefs of those who believe they do speak in tongues I offer this opinion. As far as I can tell every case of "speaking in tongues" that I have heard is not a language spoken by human beings nor any "heavenly language" that the holy scriptures record as existing. And the idea of a "prayer language" being given by God to people today does not appear to have support in the holy scriptures without a very concerted effort to construe the words in First Corinthians to mean things that they really do not mean.

Confessional Lutheran · Sep 22, 2017

The Scriptural accounts of speaking in tongues generally record the presence of the Holy Spirit Who gave the speakers the power to utter testimony to the mighty works of God in the various languages spoken in the Roman Empire at that time. Gibberish was patently not what was meant. I respect the beliefs of our Pentecostal brothers and sisters, but I see this whole " speaking in tongues" idea as something what's time has passed. As in, that time passed with the Early Church.

Andrew · Sep 24, 2017

Confessional Lutheran said:
The Scriptural accounts of speaking in tongues generally record the presence of the Holy Spirit Who gave the speakers the power to utter testimony to the mighty works of God in the various languages spoken in the Roman Empire at that time. Gibberish was patently not what was meant. I respect the beliefs of our Pentecostal brothers and sisters, but I see this whole " speaking in tongues" idea as something what's time has passed. As in, that time passed with the Early Church.

I praise and give thanks in tongues but its definitely not against scripture. Rejoice, praise and worship our savior in anyway possible for he has won us over in his work on the cross and the spilling of his royal blood for us amen.

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psalms 91 · Sep 24, 2017

Confessional Lutheran said:
The Scriptural accounts of speaking in tongues generally record the presence of the Holy Spirit Who gave the speakers the power to utter testimony to the mighty works of God in the various languages spoken in the Roman Empire at that time. Gibberish was patently not what was meant. I respect the beliefs of our Pentecostal brothers and sisters, but I see this whole " speaking in tongues" idea as something what's time has passed. As in, that time passed with the Early Church.

What other gifts passed then? All of them? I think not. All the gifts are still in operation.

Albion · Sep 24, 2017

But you've also rejected the idea that the gift of tongues might occasionally be given, which would put this gift in the same situation as some of the other gifts. It definitely is not the case that every gift is going to be seen in a bunch of churches whenever those congregations assemble for worship, and from many different people--unless it's tongues. So where does the notion come from that this particular one, tongues, must be in evidence constantly, repeatedly, etc. although the other gifts are not??

Imalive · Sep 24, 2017

Albion said:
But you've also rejected the idea that the gift of tongues might occasionally be given, which would put this gift in the same situation as some of the other gifts. It definitely is not the case that every gift is going to be seen in a bunch of churches whenever those congregations assemble for worship, and from many different people--unless it's tongues. So where does the notion come from that this particular one, tongues, must be in evidence constantly, repeatedly, etc. although the other gifts are not??

Everyone has to pray. Not everyone has to prophesy or teach or whatever, well everyone teaches someone, you have to teach your kids, not just some have to do that. We have to make disciples, but not everyone has the gift to be a teacher. Different parts of the Body do different things. But everyone has to pray and we don't know how to pray, but the Spirit helps us.

Those who believe, not just some:

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Andrew · Sep 24, 2017

Imalive said:
Everyone has to pray. Not everyone has to prophesy or teach or whatever, well everyone teaches someone, you have to teach your kids, not just some have to do that. We have to make disciples, but not everyone has the gift to be a teacher. Different parts of the Body do different things. But everyone has to pray and we don't know how to pray, but the Spirit helps us.

Those who believe, not just some:

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Amen sister!

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Albion · Sep 24, 2017

Imalive said:
Everyone has to pray. Not everyone has to prophesy or teach or whatever, well everyone teaches someone, you have to teach your kids, not just some have to do that. We have to make disciples, but not everyone has the gift to be a teacher. Different parts of the Body do different things. But everyone has to pray and we don't know how to pray, but the Spirit helps us.

Those who believe, not just some:

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

Yes, but I would still be interested to read your answer to the points and questions I raised in my post--if you have one and care to reply.

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