Mega

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,115
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Is a mega church an ego enhancing artifact of the senior pastor more than a church for people? I wonder because the idea of relating to tens of thousands of people as friends and brethren is not an easy one to grasp nor is it easy to warm to. I think 200 people is probably more than big enough. My own parish church has well over 800 people but we divide them into four Sunday masses with each mass being 200 or about that many so in effect we have four congregations of 200 people. Nearly all of my friends in church are from the mass I regularly attend on Sunday. I know of and am friendly with many from the other masses but my friends are from the mass I attend. What do you think of the mega churches?
 

faramir.pete

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
Messages
152
Age
67
Location
Peterborough
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Liberal
Marital Status
Married
I think a mega church is not any more a single church than your own church is. Generally they divide into groups based upon some sort of house group or neighbourhood basis, that is where church happens, the weekly worship sessions are no more than performances where the super Pastor personality is paraded for the faithful!

Frankly my own opinion is they are nothing more than money makers for the leaders, but then I haveyet to find a church that is more interested in its people than its own structures and organisation any way, so for me size is not the issue, what I am seeking is the heart of the people that gather and so farthat has proven illusive.


Pete from Peterborough UK
 

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
I think a mega church is not any more a single church than your own church is. Generally they divide into groups based upon some sort of house group or neighbourhood basis, that is where church happens, the weekly worship sessions are no more than performances where the super Pastor personality is paraded for the faithful!

Frankly my own opinion is they are nothing more than money makers for the leaders, but then I haveyet to find a church that is more interested in its people than its own structures and organisation any way, so for me size is not the issue, what I am seeking is the heart of the people that gather and so farthat has proven illusive.


Pete from Peterborough UK

Yes. There are good ones. If the pastor is treated as a celebrity and has loads of money, I don't trust it.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Is a mega church an ego enhancing artifact of the senior pastor more than a church for people? I wonder because the idea of relating to tens of thousands of people as friends and brethren is not an easy one to grasp nor is it easy to warm to. I think 200 people is probably more than big enough. My own parish church has well over 800 people but we divide them into four Sunday masses with each mass being 200 or about that many so in effect we have four congregations of 200 people. Nearly all of my friends in church are from the mass I regularly attend on Sunday. I know of and am friendly with many from the other masses but my friends are from the mass I attend. What do you think of the mega churches?

Umm...

article-2608888-1D384DCB00000578-728_964x642.jpg


ad_157097186.jpg


Papa-a-Firenze-allo-stadio-la-Chiesa-come-Gesu-vive-in-mezzo-alla-gente-e-per-la-gente_articleimage.jpg
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,115
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Lovely pictures but a papal address (something like urbi et orbi) is not a local parish is it?
Dear Brothers and Sisters, Happy Easter!

Today, throughout the world, the Church echoes once more the astonishing message of the first disciples: “Jesus is risen!” – “He is truly risen, as he said!”

The ancient feast of Passover, the commemoration of the liberation of the Hebrew people from slavery, here finds fulfilment. By his resurrection, Jesus Christ has set us free from the slavery of sin and death, and has opened before us the way to eternal life.

All of us, when we let ourselves be mastered by sin, lose the right way and end up straying like lost sheep. But God himself, our shepherd, has come in search of us. To save us, he lowered himself even to accepting death on the cross. Today we can proclaim: “The Good Shepherd has risen, who laid down his life for his sheep, and willingly died for his flock, alleluia” (Roman Missal, IV Sunday of Easter, Communion antiphon).

In every age, the Risen Shepherd tirelessly seeks us, his brothers and sisters, wandering in the deserts of this world. With the marks of the passion – the wounds of his merciful love – he draws us to follow him on his way, the way of life. Today too, he places upon his shoulders so many of our brothers and sisters crushed by evil in all its varied forms.

The Risen Shepherd goes in search of all those lost in the labyrinths of loneliness and marginalization. He comes to meet them through our brothers and sisters who treat them with respect and kindness, and help them to hear his voice, an unforgettable voice, a voice calling them back to friendship with God.

He takes upon himself all those victimized by old and new forms of slavery, inhuman labour, illegal trafficking, exploitation and discrimination, and grave forms of addiction. He takes upon himself children and adolescents deprived of their carefree innocence and exploited, and those deeply hurt by acts of violence that take place within the walls of their own home.

The Risen Shepherd walks beside all those forced to leave their homelands as a result of armed conflicts, terrorist attacks, famine and oppressive regimes. Everywhere he helps these forced migrants to encounter brothers and sisters, with whom they can share bread and hope on their journey.

In the complex and often dramatic situations of today’s world, may the Risen Lord guide the steps of all those who work for justice and peace. May he grant the leaders of nations the courage they need to prevent the spread of conflicts and to put a halt to the arms trade.

Especially in these days, may he sustain the efforts of all those actively engaged in bringing comfort and relief to the civil population in beloved Syria, so greatly suffering from a war that continues to sow horror and death. Yesterday saw the latest vile attack on fleeing refugees, resulting in the death and injury of many. May he grant peace to the entire Middle East, beginning with the Holy Land, as well as in Iraq and Yemen.

May the Good Shepherd remain close to the people of South Sudan, Sudan, Somalia and the Democratic Republic of Congo, who endure continuing hostilities, aggravated by the grave famine affecting certain parts of Africa.

May the Risen Jesus sustain the efforts of all those who, especially in Latin America, are committed to ensuring the common good of societies marked at times by political and social tensions that in some cases have resulted in violence. May it be possible for bridges of dialogue to be built, by continuing to fight the scourge of corruption and to seek viable and peaceful solutions to disputes, for progress and the strengthening of democratic institutions in complete respect for the rule of law.

May the Good Shepherd come to the aid of Ukraine, still beset by conflict and bloodshed, to regain social harmony. May he accompany every effort to alleviate the tragic sufferings of those affected by the conflict.

The Risen Lord continues to shed his blessing upon the continent of Europe. May he grant hope to those experiencing moments of crisis and difficulty, especially due to high unemployment, particularly among young people.

Dear brothers and sisters, this year Christians of every confession celebrate Easter together. With one voice, in every part of the world, we proclaim the great message: “The Lord is truly risen, as he said!” May Jesus, who vanquished the darkness of sin and death, grant peace to our days.

Happy Easter!
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,084
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Is a mega church an ego enhancing artifact of the senior pastor more than a church for people? I wonder because the idea of relating to tens of thousands of people as friends and brethren is not an easy one to grasp nor is it easy to warm to. I think 200 people is probably more than big enough. My own parish church has well over 800 people but we divide them into four Sunday masses with each mass being 200 or about that many so in effect we have four congregations of 200 people. Nearly all of my friends in church are from the mass I regularly attend on Sunday. I know of and am friendly with many from the other masses but my friends are from the mass I attend. What do you think of the mega churches?

I wouldn't say that a very large church is automatically little more than a cash machine for the leaders or an ego boost but, having seen a few of them, they do seem to have a lot of non-churchlike things about them.

Firstly, a church needs to be a place where people know and are known. The larger a church gets the easier it is for people to get lost in the crowd. Sometimes it's nice to be able to be a little more private one week but there's not a lot of point going to church if you aren't going to fellowship with others and, if you're just another face in the crowd that nobody knows, there comes a point when you have to accept there's no actual fellowship going on. Of course a small church can be just as unwelcoming.

Secondly, and associated with the first point, if the minister isn't able to minister to his congregation he can't really call himself the minister. Once you start getting to the point of having one head pastor overseeing an army of senior pastors, pastors, associate pastors and the like you've basically created a business rather than a church. And if the senior pastor doesn't know most of the people in his congregation one would have to ask how effective he is as a pastor. If he isn't a pastor there's no point giving him the office and the salary.

Thirdly, people should be able to bring their gifts and talents to the church. The more people there are in the church the more likely it is that the majority will end up doing nothing more than showing up and sitting on a seat in relative anonymity. It's also more likely for power to become concentrated in a few hands by the very nature of the management hierarchy, which in turn can lead to abuse. Again, this can happen in a small church if individuals in key positions abuse those positions but naturally the more managers there are the more likely it is that there will be a bad manager.


Some years ago a good friend of mine was a member at a huge church. He frequently gushed about how the senior pastor had platinum flyer status with several major airlines because he flew so much. All I could wonder was how he had time to tend his flock if he spent so much time travelling (this "pastor" - I use the term loosely was, and may still be, an internationally known writer). My friend was constantly giving to the church, both financially and of his time, including giving lifts to the pastor and his family when they needed to get to and from the airport. When my friend needed a ride from the airport nobody was there for him, so he took a cab. When he was sick nobody went to check on him. When he stopped attending the church feeling utterly disillusioned and burned out nobody followed up on him. It was pretty clear that he was a valued member of the church for as long as he was endlessly giving something but as soon as he needed something he was just left to get on with it.

Maybe the church could raise $6,000,000 in a week for their new building project but it's a shame they couldn't actually be a church and look after their members.
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
4,914
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It seems like most pastors who are at mega churches spend their time focused on their teaching and preaching and let others run the church as far as the business. In a smaller church you have to wear more hats including possibly leading the music. When I was in the church ministry, I preached, taught a Sunday School class, led the business meetings and was on every committee the church had except the women's ministry.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,084
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It seems like most pastors who are at mega churches spend their time focused on their teaching and preaching and let others run the church as far as the business. In a smaller church you have to wear more hats including possibly leading the music. When I was in the church ministry, I preached, taught a Sunday School class, led the business meetings and was on every committee the church had except the women's ministry.

At the mega church my friend attended the senior pastor spent his time swanning around in aircraft.

If the pastor is truly focussing on teaching I wouldn't see a problem - most churches have elders and deacons/deaconesses specifically to take some of the work off the shoulders of the minister, and save the minister from having to worry about every little detail relating to things like building management.

I still think that if the church has grown so large that a couple of pastors can't run it (with the help of a few elders and deacons) maybe it's time to split into two churches. If the church is so large that there are any regular visitors who aren't known to at least one of the pastors it's time to split. If people can go from being regular attenders to vanishing and nobody notices for a month or more, there's a problem.
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
4,914
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
At the mega church my friend attended the senior pastor spent his time swanning around in aircraft.

If the pastor is truly focussing on teaching I wouldn't see a problem - most churches have elders and deacons/deaconesses specifically to take some of the work off the shoulders of the minister, and save the minister from having to worry about every little detail relating to things like building management.

I still think that if the church has grown so large that a couple of pastors can't run it (with the help of a few elders and deacons) maybe it's time to split into two churches. If the church is so large that there are any regular visitors who aren't known to at least one of the pastors it's time to split. If people can go from being regular attenders to vanishing and nobody notices for a month or more, there's a problem.

The church I have been attending recently has three sites and the main site has over a thousand in attendance on Sundays. There is no way they could know everyone who attends. That is why they emphasize small groups, so that you network with a small group of people who at least in theory minister to each other. I've only been attending my small group for four weeks now, but I think if I truly had a need I could call on those guys to help me out.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,084
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The church I have been attending recently has three sites and the main site has over a thousand in attendance on Sundays. There is no way they could know everyone who attends. That is why they emphasize small groups, so that you network with a small group of people who at least in theory minister to each other. I've only been attending my small group for four weeks now, but I think if I truly had a need I could call on those guys to help me out.

If the pastoral staff can't possibly know everybody who attends regularly (I stress regularly, if someone does visit once or twice and keeps a low profile you can't blame the staff for not noticing them), do you think the church is too big?

My current church has a membership of maybe 150 and focusses on small groups. Small groups seem like a good thing regardless of the size of the church.

If you've got 1000+ people attending, do you find the service is personal or do you simply become another face in a huge crowd?
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
4,914
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
If the pastoral staff can't possibly know everybody who attends regularly (I stress regularly, if someone does visit once or twice and keeps a low profile you can't blame the staff for not noticing them), do you think the church is too big?

My current church has a membership of maybe 150 and focusses on small groups. Small groups seem like a good thing regardless of the size of the church.

If you've got 1000+ people attending, do you find the service is personal or do you simply become another face in a huge crowd?

There are definitely good and bad to being in a larger church. One is that more is expected from others in the church besides the pastors. There is a large army of people who are responsible for greeting people when they come in and answering questions. The bad part is you can easily get lost in crowd and have stuff going on in your life that the pastors and people don't know about and may never know about. To me though the fact that there is an excitement there and that many young people are attending that don't tend to go to many of the more traditional services tells me they are doing something right.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,115
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Young people are scary! They want more cuda cores! :p
 

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The Pentecostal church I attended at one time boasted about 2,500 - 3,000 members, but usually had about 750 - 800 showed up. The senior leadership was a bit weird in that they were mostly related; the senior pastor's dad was the Bishop (I have no idea what made him a 'Bishop', he just was...), The Bishop over him (see? Weird...) was his FIL, many of the elders were cousins, the Co-senior pastor was the pastor's BIL. It was an inside job.

Aside from that, people tended to gravitate toward one another. It almost seemed that folks got to know others by default. The best way was to attend their Tuesday evening bible study. That was a group of (typically) about 80-100, and it was simpler for us to get to know one another, and for the leadership to know you - even if just by a friendly "hello". There were a few of the elders I got to know, and they were just great people. At the same time, if someone didn't know you, some would let you know it. There was an air of arrogance to a number of Pentecostals (this was UPC, and it was common across the denomination). Mostly those who were very strict in their observance of "law".
 

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
The Pentecostal church I attended at one time boasted about 2,500 - 3,000 members, but usually had about 750 - 800 showed up. The senior leadership was a bit weird in that they were mostly related; the senior pastor's dad was the Bishop (I have no idea what made him a 'Bishop', he just was...), The Bishop over him (see? Weird...) was his FIL, many of the elders were cousins, the Co-senior pastor was the pastor's BIL. It was an inside job.

Aside from that, people tended to gravitate toward one another. It almost seemed that folks got to know others by default. The best way was to attend their Tuesday evening bible study. That was a group of (typically) about 80-100, and it was simpler for us to get to know one another, and for the leadership to know you - even if just by a friendly "hello". There were a few of the elders I got to know, and they were just great people. At the same time, if someone didn't know you, some would let you know it. There was an air of arrogance to a number of Pentecostals (this was UPC, and it was common across the denomination). Mostly those who were very strict in their observance of "law".

Oh yes, bishops, what nonsense. First it was apostle, but that wasn't special enough, then they changed it to bishop.
 
Top Bottom