White Nationalists rally - State of Emergency in Virginia

The confederate heroes were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands. Maybe they ought not be treated as heroes?

MoreCoffee said:

The confederate heroes were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands. Maybe they ought not be treated as heroes?

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In which case presumably no military figures should be treated as heroes. Most people considered to be war heroes were successful in war, so presumably were also responsible (directly or indirectly) for large numbers of deaths of people on the other side.

tango said:

In which case presumably no military figures should be treated as heroes. Most people considered to be war heroes were successful in war, so presumably were also responsible (directly or indirectly) for large numbers of deaths of people on the other side.

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Careful about being too logical, you might offend someone's sentimentality.

Or stumble upon unpopular truths of history (the ones the winners didn't write).

tango said:

In which case presumably no military figures should be treated as heroes. Most people considered to be war heroes were successful in war, so presumably were also responsible (directly or indirectly) for large numbers of deaths of people on the other side.

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Confederate armed forces were defending the system of slavery in their states; there is nothing heroic about defending human slavery. Military figures who are on the aggressive side in a war and who lead troops to kill thousands upon thousands are not heroes. Certainly not heroes for Christians.

psalms 91 said:

What they were actually defending was states rights. They had the right to withdraw from the union but of course we know that wasnt allowed and after the war that is when the federal government began to get so strong.

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The state right they wanted to defend was slavery laws.

MoreCoffee said:

The confederate heroes were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands. Maybe they ought not be treated as heroes?

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Are you aware that the Union General, General Grant was referred to as "the butcher" because he didn't seem to care how many men he lost only that he won the battle?
I don't think there should be monuments at all of the civil war or those who fought in it. It was a shameful period of American history when families were divided and alot of people were hurt.
The actual statute removal that they were protesting was of General Lee. I think Lee himself would agree that it is time to take the statute down and move on

jsimms435 said:

Are you aware that the Union General, General Grant was referred to as "the butcher" because he didn't seem to care how many men he lost only that he won the battle?
I don't think there should be monuments at all of the civil war or those who fought in it. It was a shameful period of American history when families were divided and alot of people were hurt.
The actual statute removal that they were protesting was of General Lee. I think Lee himself would agree that it is time to take the statute down and move on

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I agree that no "heroes" for Christians ought to come from the ranks of generals and the like. Killing in war is dreadful. Being especially good at it or especially good at planning it ought to be seen as a shameful necessity if one's nation is attacked and just as shameful if one's nation does the attacking.

psalms 91 said:

I guess then David and Abraham and Joshua were not heros and must have went against God? Is that right? I think not

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I never thought of Robert E Lee as being another Joshua, let alone a David or an Abraham. I can't recall any of the biblical characters fighting to Keep Israel a slave state but it is true that Israel did have slavery and laws governing slavery. I wonder why God gave them laws for something so repugnant.

MoreCoffee said:

I never thought of Robert E Lee as being another Joshua, let alone a David or an Abraham. I can't recall any of the biblical characters fighting to Keep Israel a slave state but it is true that Israel did have slavery and laws governing slavery. I wonder why God gave them laws for something so repugnant.

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Even though whoever wrote the books that contain the Law states that God gave it, Jesus cleared that up and said that Moses gave the Law. Some of the laws are downright evil, and could not have been given by a loving God.

Lämmchen said:

Would the rally have remained non-violent if the counter protestors hadn't shown up?

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Thank God that there were people willing to stand up to evil.

Ignoring Adolf Hitler and his Nazi party didn't work well for Germany or the world. Ignoring Neonazis is not likely to work well for anybody.

MoreCoffee said:

Ignoring Adolf Hitler and his Nazi party didn't work well for Germany or the world. Ignoring Neonazis is not likely to work well for anybody.

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News flash - Adolf Hitler was the best thing to happen to Germany post world war 1. He was welcomed (not ignored) by the Germans and some surrounding nations precisely because he pulled the country out of the economic hell imposed on it by the "allied powers" (the supposed good guys).

But that's beside the point of this thread. Bringing up Hitler is meant to be a conversation stopper because of the emotions it invokes. That's why you've brought it up. You don't agree with the point of another and wish to use the worst example you can think of to hammer your point that they are in the wrong.

Well, I happen to agree with you in the sense that ignoring a group of people is sometimes not the answer, but answering them is.

Would you deny that right to people who march against GAY PRIDE parades and so forth? Or would you fall silent because you maybe agree with them?

*Awaits to see if MoreCoffee will chameleon out of free speech mode into gay/trans defender mode where everyone who disagrees is not exercising their freedom of speech but instead practicing bigotry and phobias*