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    Ethics & Debate Center - Thread: Is talking someone into committing suicide murder?

    1. #1
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Is talking someone into committing suicide murder?

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f51509df544c

      A teenager had talked her boyfriend into committing suicide and now Massachusetts is trying to decide if that falls into the realm of murder. What do you think?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #2
      psalms 91's Avatar
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      No it shouldnt it was stioll his choice
      Isaiah 40:31

    3. #3
      Snerfle is offline Veteran Member
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      Interesting question.
      Jesus said if you have hatred in your heart for another, you've committed murder already. So there are differences I guess, because we don't put a person on trial and in jail for being hateful, (although there are some places that have stiffer penalties if a crime is committed with hatred as the motivator, but that's another questionable topic), but I'm thinking about the first sin in the garden, the devil tempted man, instigating the fall, which in a sense was like murder/suicide of the worst degree.

      Then there's the whole subject of Jesus' crucifixion, so this can get pretty heavy.
      But I gtg for now, will get back later I hope. Interesting question, though.
      ~Deliberate ignorance
      is anti-christian~

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    5. #4
      Josiah's Avatar
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      On the one hand, it is impossible to FORCE another to feel anything. One could take one's harm and physically force it to plunge a knife into one's chest, but in that case, the person is causing the action. We take responsibility for our OWN feelings and resulting action.

      On the other hand, the girl IS responsible for what she said AND for the thoughts that were behind them. And as was pointed out, "murder" is not limited to the actual act but begins in the heart. In THAT sense, perhaps she is guilty of murder.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    6. #5
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      I think we have to differentiate between judging whether something constitutes being murder under governmental statutes and biblical NT statues.

      On one hand I believe under U.S. law if someone were to intentionally scream "FIRE" knowing full well there wasn't in fact a fire in a crowded auditorium and people got injured or possibly killed due to being crushed by the panicking crowd trying to evacuate the building, I don't believe they would be convicted of murder but probably a leaser charge like man slaughter or something.

      And as others have posted God's law judges the intent of the heart where even hatered is counted as murder and would need to be forgiven as such.
      Last edited by Tigger; 06-07-2017 at 02:44 PM.

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    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
      I think we have to differentiate between judging whether something constitutes being murder under governmental statutes and biblical NT statues.

      On one hand I believe under U.S. law if someone were to intentionally scream "FIRE" knowing full well there wasn't in fact a fire in a crowded auditorium and people got injured or possibly killed due to being crushed by the panicking crowd trying to evacuate the building, I don't believe they would be convicted of murder but probably a leaser charge like man slaughter or something.

      And as others have posted God's law judges the intent of the heart where even hatered is counted as murder and would need to be forgiven as such.
      Well thought out, Tigger . I wonder too, if it could be proven that the person was so coerced as to be considered 'brainwashed' and manipulated to committing suicide OR murder, where the line (or lines) of responsibility fall.
      Of course, there were cultists over the years, JimJones, CharlesManson, etc., where ppl did things seemingly under the influence of another person.
      Then there are accounts of ppl being 'possessed' by demons, ... Think of at least one in the bible that was so badly under the influence he would easily break the bindings ppl would put on him, he would cut himself, (and think of the ppl who still do that today, many teenagers, sadly) and he would scream and hurl insults, etc., ..... Of course, ppl must have either hated or greatly feared this guy, yet Our Lord Jesus had compassion and ministered to him and set him free from that demonic influence.
      I wonder how many ppl have gone beyond cutting themselves, to actually committing suicide, because of demonic coersion or possession.
      But more to the point of the OP, suppose the person that coerced another to commit suicide was under demonic influence themself?
      Gosh, I better quit now, it just gets muddier, and I don't know how much of these kind of things can be proven/disproved in a court of law.
      ~Deliberate ignorance
      is anti-christian~

    9. #7
      ~Jo~'s Avatar
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      I read about this case, my opinion is what kind of person tries to encourage someone to taking there own life, what possible reason could she have had to do that, I feel sorry for the guy that did it, he was suffering from depression without a lot of help from everyone. I think she needs to see a psychiatrist to get herself sorted out .. she was supposed to be his girlfriend I think, tragically she got him to do it even told him his parents would understand .. If I was his parents I don't think I would have understood how she lead him to doing it..Yes he didn't have to do it but when your that depressed your not even thinking whats right or wrong and she should have got him help but failed miserable... she should go to prison I think for encouraging him to it...

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    11. #8
      Snerfle is offline Veteran Member
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      Hard to argue with post #7^ . ( And Hi ~Jo~ )
      ~Deliberate ignorance
      is anti-christian~

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    13. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Snerfle View Post
      Well thought out, Tigger . I wonder too, if it could be proven that the person was so coerced as to be considered 'brainwashed' and manipulated to committing suicide OR murder, where the line (or lines) of responsibility fall.
      Of course, there were cultists over the years, JimJones, CharlesManson, etc., where ppl did things seemingly under the influence of another person.
      Then there are accounts of ppl being 'possessed' by demons, ... Think of at least one in the bible that was so badly under the influence he would easily break the bindings ppl would put on him, he would cut himself, (and think of the ppl who still do that today, many teenagers, sadly) and he would scream and hurl insults, etc., ..... Of course, ppl must have either hated or greatly feared this guy, yet Our Lord Jesus had compassion and ministered to him and set him free from that demonic influence.
      I wonder how many ppl have gone beyond cutting themselves, to actually committing suicide, because of demonic coersion or possession.
      But more to the point of the OP, suppose the person that coerced another to commit suicide was under demonic influence themself?
      Gosh, I better quit now, it just gets muddier, and I don't know how much of these kind of things can be proven/disproved in a court of law.
      Yes from what I can tell we are in agreement. The older I get the more I see our nature as not only sinful but wounded. But I do feel we are accountable for our choices. Let's say my fallen nature causes me to be lustful. I can fight against it with prayer and wholesome thinking or I can give into my lust only to increase my appetite for it. We'll keep wanting more and more until we become throughly perverse. The Bible refers to this as a searing of the conscience as if with a branding iron. The only recourse for this situation (which we all are in by the way, only at different stages) is the Holy Spirit.

      Now then governmentally speaking it can only act pragmatically diciphering between criminal intent or a psychological disorder.

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    15. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
      Yes from what I can tell we are in agreement. The older I get the more I see our nature as not only sinful but wounded. But I do feel we are accountable for our choices. Let's say my fallen nature causes me to be lustful. I can fight against it with prayer and wholesome thinking or I can give into my lust only to increase my appetite for it. We'll keep wanting more and more until we become throughly perverse. The Bible refers to this as a searing of the conscience as if with a branding iron. The only recourse for this situation (which we all are in by the way, only at different stages) is the Holy Spirit.

      Now then governmentally speaking it can only act pragmatically diciphering between criminal intent or a psychological disorder.
      Yep yep and amen!
      Excellent post.
      ~Deliberate ignorance
      is anti-christian~

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