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    1. #21
      Cassia's Avatar
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      The main difference between Arminian teaching and Lutheran teaching is that the first teaches that you can lose your salvation and the other teaches OSAS. So the conflict is around the book of Hebrews that the first point to chapter 10 and the second point to chapter 6. But when properly read chapter 6 is to those who have accepted Christ while chapter 10 is about those who reject and undermine the Holy Spirit. What neither take into consideration is rewards. Instead both look to perdition rather than loss of rewards.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      God saved us because He loved the world...you know the rest.

      Our response is a response and isn't what saves us. Just as in real life we end up loving our parents without being told TO LOVE THEM in order for them to be our parents, God builds a relationship with us. We grow to love Him. How can we not for what He has done for our salvation? Our response isn't the source of our salvation.
      That is a response when you are already saved, not when you're not saved. You all got saved as a kid. Not one kid will say no to Jesus. A grown up who isn't His child can resist Him so he can't get saved. God broke Nebukadnesar's pride first before he admitted He is God. If someone is proud he cannot accept Jesus. Little children don't have that problem.
      Jerusalem Jerusalem I wanted to gather your kids but you didn't want to. The parents kept their own kids from Him. People can say no to God. That's why they don't get saved. Why else not? Cause He was for no reason at all not willing to give them the gift?? That is weird. Their heart must have been proud and bad soil. He throws noone out who comes to Him.
      Even when I did not believe He existed it was not even a question for me that I'd follow Him if He did exist. There are those that are so proud, if God exists they don't want Him cause He's evil and not a superior humanist like them. Now I believe even those can get saved but they are not saved now because they're proud and resist Him. One guy said if God saves me within 2 days like Paul I will believe, otherwise not. Then he was kinda surprised that God didn't dance to his whistling. Come on now. He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Someone like that first needs to be humbled.
      Last edited by Rens; 04-30-2017 at 01:43 PM.

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    4. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Snerfle View Post
      Just wading my way through all the religionistic gobblety-goop of another 'it's-my-way-or-the-excommunication-highway' thread.

      Btw, which religious expert is now going to insist on telling us they know when Lazarus got saved/or was born-again/or became a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ/or joined some religious organization and got water-baptized and ate and drank Jesus' flesh and blood as denominational requirements to have his sins forgiven?
      Seriously look at how you mock your fellow christians you ought to be ashamed of your behavior and this ain't the only post where your doing it because you got something against other people who believe differently than you but are better at proving it from scripture and that makes you mad so you try to put them down.

      Jesus didn't even ordain baptism or Holy communion until after Lazarus was raised so your point is pure nonsense ya know?
      If you want to rile people up then go to a Christian site and give God ALL the glory for your salvation.

    5. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rens View Post
      That is a response when you are already saved, not when you're not saved. You all got saved as a kid. Not one kid will say no to Jesus. A grown up who isn't His child can resist Him so he can't get saved. God broke Nebukadnesar's pride first before he admitted He is God. If someone is proud he cannot accept Jesus. Little children don't have that problem.
      Jerusalem Jerusalem I wanted to gather your kids but you didn't want to. The parents kept their own kids from Him. People can say no to God. That's why they don't get saved. Why else not? Cause He was for no reason at all not willing to give them the gift?? That is weird. Their heart must have been proud and bad soil. He throws noone out who comes to Him.
      Even when I did not believe He existed it was not even a question for me that I'd follow Him if He did exist. There are those that are so proud, if God exists they don't want Him cause He's evil and not a superior humanist like them. Now I believe even those can get saved but they are not saved now because they're proud and resist Him. One guy said if God saves me within 2 days like Paul I will believe, otherwise not. Then he was kinda sad that God didn't dance to his whistling. Come on now. He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Someone like that first needs to be humbled.
      heh do you see how you say that the unsaved are too proud and that's what we've been saying because the unsaved can't just humble without divine intervention. You said it, sister, the unsaved can't save themselves.
      If you want to rile people up then go to a Christian site and give God ALL the glory for your salvation.

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    7. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by TurtleHare View Post
      Seriously look at how you mock your fellow christians you ought to be ashamed of your behavior and this ain't the only post where your doing it because you got something against other people who believe differently than you but are better at proving it from scripture and that makes you mad so you try to put them down.

      Jesus didn't even ordain baptism or Holy communion until after Lazarus was raised so your point is pure nonsense ya know?
      Just when was Lazarus saved? When was he born again? When did he first become a believer? Did he get water-baptised before he died? After? Did he ever take communion? Did he think it was symbolic? Did he think he was literally eating Jesus?
      [Staff Edit]
      Last edited by Lämmchen; 05-01-2017 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Staff Edit
      ~Deliberate ignorance
      is anti-christian~

    8. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by TurtleHare View Post
      heh do you see how you say that the unsaved are too proud and that's what we've been saying because the unsaved can't just humble without divine intervention. You said it, sister, the unsaved can't save themselves.
      Yes I agree, we're saved by grace through faith just like the Bible says, nothing from ourselves and that happened when I heard I had to pray the sinner's prayer and did it. Afterwards I felt an immediate change.

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    10. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rens View Post
      Yes I agree, we're saved by grace through faith just like the Bible says, nothing from ourselves and that happened when I heard I had to pray the sinner's prayer and did it. Afterwards I felt an immediate change.
      Yes. But that is so hard to explain.

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    12. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      The main difference between Arminian teaching and Lutheran teaching is that the first teaches that you can lose your salvation and the other teaches OSAS. So the conflict is around the book of Hebrews that the first point to chapter 10 and the second point to chapter 6. But when properly read chapter 6 is to those who have accepted Christ while chapter 10 is about those who reject and undermine the Holy Spirit. What neither take into consideration is rewards. Instead both look to perdition rather than loss of rewards.
      Lutheranism doesn't teach OSAS, it teaches believers must be drawn by the Father but that they 'can' ship wreck their faith.

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    14. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
      Lutheranism doesn't teach OSAS, it teaches believers must be drawn by the Father but that they 'can' ship wreck their faith.
      Oh sorry, I guess I got that mixed up with Calvinism. (so actually Lutherans side with Arminians on loss of salvation being possible after salvation?) There's the objectiveness of Calvinists and the subjectiveness of Arminians. The teachings of rewards and loss of rewards are missing from both so interpretations fall into either extreme. Neither recognise that in the book of Hebrews God portrays Himself as a God who rewards and that comes with seeing the loss of rewards that scripture depicts.
      Instead the verses that describe rewards are overlooked as to losses and instead interpreted to mean perdition.

      Hebrews 11:6
      And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
      Hebrews 10:35
      So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.


      1 Corinthians 3:8
      The one who plants and the one who waters have a common purpose, and each will receive wages according to the labor of each.
      1 Corinthians 3:14-15
      If what has been built on the foundation survives, the builder will receive a reward. If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

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    16. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rens View Post
      Yes I agree, we're saved by grace through faith just like the Bible says, nothing from ourselves
      I agree with this
      If you want to rile people up then go to a Christian site and give God ALL the glory for your salvation.

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