Catholic Only Dogmas: There's something about Mary

MS140ukn

MS140ukn

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4) the assumption of the blessed virgin Mary
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Psalm 16:10 - For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay. Oral tradition relates how the apostles went to her tomb and found it empty. That she was assumed into heaven by her Son Jesus when she died. It may or may not be true but if you think about it, it makes sense. God wouldn't leave the body of the Mother of Christ on Earth to be ripped apart and tested in future ages. So I can understand if this happened.
 
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seekingsolace

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It's not so much the assumption of Mary I have an issue with, but the Church defining it as a prerequisite to salvation. As far as I am aware.
 
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MS140ukn said:
Psalm 16:10 - For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay. Oral tradition relates how the apostles went to her tomb and found it empty. That she was assumed into heaven by her Son Jesus when she died. It may or may not be true but if you think about it, it makes sense. God wouldn't leave the body of the Mother of Christ on Earth to be ripped apart and tested in future ages. So I can understand if this happened.
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its simply not truth and has absolutely no biblical foundation upon which to be established .
and i say that Boldly because everything to do tithe the lord Jesus is foretold throughout of the scriptures .
absolutely nothing even remotely alludes to her divinity her perpetual virginity or her being resurrected before "the day of the lord "
that she is in the heavens in spirit with all those that have passed from this world is plain enough in scripture . but all the other claims regarding her are absolute fabrications and do not originate from God .
 
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Alithis said:
There is nothing in scripture that causes me to think any such things about mary (save she was a virgin when the word of god was conceived as flesh within her womb).she was born of the blood of the line of david who was born of the line of abraham who was born of the line of shem who was born of the line of adam who sinned . she was not divine not perpetual a virgin and cannot hear or answer prayers .. and you cannot refute what i have just said using the 66 books of the clear unambiguous scripture . there is ZERO scripture to support any of these blatantly false teachings . ZERO scripture as in NONE ZILCH NADA .to impose such teaching you must turn away from the bible and listen to sinful mans teachings .. you must oppose the bible in favor of another voice .and i note from your post that is exactly what you did .. as you did not use a single clear unambiguous scripture to support any of the claims .
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My bible has 73 books in it so I am not limited to 66 as you evidently are.
 
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Romanos said:
I am on the fence about Mary and veneration, but we also need to remember that the current Bible was created only a couple hundred years ago
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Yes, it is an odd thing about history that folk forget about it so quickly. A strictly 66 book bible in printed form did not become common in any language until some time around 1830 AD when (for cost and theological reasons) the British & Foreign Bible Society refused funding to bible societies around the world if they printed bibles with more than 66 books in them. The KJV which is so familiar to English Speaking people almost always had more than 66 books in it until the time I mentioned. My own copy of the KJV has all 73 books that I accept as canonical and a few more as well.
 
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seekingsolace said:
It's not so much the assumption of Mary I have an issue with, but the Church defining it as a prerequisite to salvation. As far as I am aware.
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The Catholic Church defines nothing (absolutely nothing) as a prerequisite for salvation. The Catholic Church teaches that the faithful are saved by grace. Of course if one, having received sanctifying grace, later chooses to deny what the holy scriptures teach then the Church will very likely try to convince one to believe but if that is not possible because the refusal to believe is too entrenched then the Church will excommunicate.
 
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GenesisGirl said:
Thank you for clarifying this as the major difference is whether or not she was alive or dead at the assumption.
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The RCC officially doesn't know if Mary died or not - however, nearly every Catholic teacher known to me disagrees and state that she was assumed BEFORE she died OR after she died.

It strike me.... odd..... that the singular, exclusive RC Denomination KNOWS - to the highest level of certainty possible - that she was assumed into heaven but doens't have a clue, not a clue, if she died for not.


The EOC holds to a view similar to this - but it's not DOGMA there (not even doctrine). As a "pious opinion" I could "live" with this abiblical and irrelevant view. But I wasn't EOC, I was RCC where one must submit to this as DOGMA - a BINDING matter of highest importance possible and greatest certainty of fact possible (since 1950 anyway) - THAT was the problem. I could not PRETEND I was Catholic when clearly I was not: it was a matter of integrity and honesty and character for me: Since I do NOT conclude that Her assumption into Heaven is DE FIDE DOGMA, I'm ergo not Catholic.





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Josiah

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MoreCoffee said:
The Catholic Church teaches that the faithful are saved by grace.
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To QUOTE verbatim our Catholic teachers: "Grace is the empowering of God. Grace is the spiritual 'gas' God puts in your 'tank' so that YOU can get YOURSELF where YOU need to get."

The same view as in Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism. As our Catholic teachers said, "God HELPS those who help themselves." "Jesus opened the gates of heaven but YOU gotta get YOURSELF through it." Jesus as the possibility-maker, maybe even helper - but in no sense the Savior.


As we OFTEN find, Catholicism still uses Christian words - they've just given them entirely different (and often Jewish, Muslim, Hindu) meanings so as to focus on self in stead of Christ, to make self the Savior.



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Josiah said:
To QUOTE verbatim our Catholic teachers: "Grace is the empowering of God. Grace is the spiritual 'gas' God puts in your 'tank' so that YOU can get YOURSELF where YOU need to get." ...
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Why is it that your comments in quote marks don't seem to square with what the Catholic Church says in its own Catechism's glossary?

Grace is the free and undeserved gift that God gives us to respond to our vocation to become his adopted children. As sanctifying grace, God shares his divine life and friendship with us in a habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that enables the soul to live with God, to act by his love. As actual grace, God gives us the help to conform our lives to his will. Sacramental grace and special graces (charisms, the grace of one’s state of life) are gifts of the Holy Spirit to help us live out our Christian vocation (CCC Glossary)
 
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