NASA and Facebook tricked you

MoreCoffee · Nov 26, 2016

MarkFL said:
Are we really actually discussing whether the Earth is a heliocentric oblate spheroid vs. a magical flat disk? Can we really be discussing such nonsense? C'mon, I implore thee...fess up to thy trollery.

It was bad enough when the community at large stood by and allowed a stupid definition of atheism to stand undisputed. Do none of you have any convictions? Are we going to let this just stand? I just don't get it. Speak up if you have any convictions whatsoever. Or is it just easier to sit idly by while nonsense is floated by?

I presumed that the thread was either a bit of humour or a troll

MarkFL · Nov 26, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
I presumed that the thread was either a bit of humour or a troll

MC, you have stood steadfastly against nonsense...and I thank you for your support here...I was hoping for the community at large to jump on this crapola.

If we just let nonsense fly, then we are no good as a community.

MoreCoffee · Nov 26, 2016

MarkFL said:
MC, you have stood steadfastly against nonsense...and I thank you for your support here...I was hoping for the community at large to jump on this crapola. If we just let nonsense fly, then we are no good as a community.

There's a lot of nonsense around. A recent thread mentions the pope and Antarctica - why? It looks like some religious conspiracy theory. I decided not to write anything yet. It's the sort of thing that doesn't matter no matter which side one takes. I reckon conspiracy theories are pretty time wasting.

ImaginaryDay2 · Nov 26, 2016

I wasn't sure there was any conspiracy. Facebook and NASA lied, and the earth is flat. Okay... next...? I think I zoned out at the post where it was stated that real science was "testable and prove-able". Why indulge afterward?

Rens · Nov 26, 2016

If you see how they explain all these things like the sun going under in those videos, I can see why people can believe that. And if they think satellites etc don't exist, but it's one big conspiracy, there's no way to prove it's round. It isn't even round btw. It's an egg.

psalms 91 · Nov 26, 2016

MarkFL said:
MC, you have stood steadfastly against nonsense...and I thank you for your support here...I was hoping for the community at large to jump on this crapola. If we just let nonsense fly, then we are no good as a community.

Yeah but sometimes it is better yo leave them to their delusions

Rens · Nov 26, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
There's a lot of nonsense around. A recent thread mentions the pope and Antarctica - why? It looks like some religious conspiracy theory. I decided not to write anything yet. It's the sort of thing that doesn't matter no matter which side one takes. I reckon conspiracy theories are pretty time wasting.

I used to believe almost everything I read on internet.
I once made posts on cf with the other elections. I was convinced Romney was the rider on the white horse and I posted a link for them. I still remember the response from SimplyPut when he read my link:
From the front page: E.T. not fiction

:lol::lol:

Stravinsk · Nov 26, 2016

MarkFL said:
Are we really actually discussing whether the Earth is a heliocentric oblate spheroid vs. a magical flat disk? Can we really be discussing such nonsense? C'mon, I implore thee...fess up to thy trollery.

It was bad enough when the community at large stood by and allowed a stupid definition of atheism to stand undisputed. Do none of you have any convictions? Are we going to let this just stand? I just don't get it. Speak up if you have any convictions whatsoever. Or is it just easier to sit idly by while nonsense is floated by?

MarkFL said:
MC, you have stood steadfastly against nonsense...and I thank you for your support here...I was hoping for the community at large to jump on this crapola. If we just let nonsense fly, then we are no good as a community.

Starting to sound like a politician, Mark. You advocate ganging up on people who don't happen to agree with your beliefs. Newsflash, sir - you are on a Christian site and you are an admitted Atheist/Agnostic. This makes your beliefs in direct opposition on the most basic level to every single person who identifies as a Christian - and also to me who holds some things in common with Christians (belief in God - parts of the Old and New Testaments).

I've already stated that Flat Earth is diametrically opposed to your beliefs. It is also biblically supported, although most Christians view it as an embarrassment and have to have a long list of excuses and explanations for the bible verses that strongly suggest it. That's their problem - I don't wish to live in cognitive dissonance.

Welcome to my unfriended list. Instead of debating points you resort to group think bullying and speak as if you are some kind of 'community leader'. I don't take kindly to little boy bully tactics.

MarkFL · Nov 26, 2016

That the Earth is an oblate spheroid is not merely a belief, it is an easily observable fact (I've seen it myself). Sizable groups already go against scientific consensus on vaccines, evolution and climate change...so why not this? You do have the right to deny this (or any other known facts you so choose), and so in retrospect, it was wrong of me to try to get the community to state their opinions, and for that I apologize.

Stravinsk · Nov 26, 2016

MarkFL said:
That the Earth is an oblate spheroid is not merely a belief, it is an easily observable fact (I've seen it myself). Sizable groups already go against scientific consensus on vaccines, evolution and climate change...so why not this? You do have the right to deny this (or any other known facts you so choose), and so in retrospect, it was wrong of me to try to get the community to state their opinions, and for that I apologize.

Observable fact? You haven't gone over any of the information I have presented in this thread, neither the videos or the link. Hey, I'm fine with you using the mind control technique called ENDLESS REPETITION - it is, after all what television and various media uses to brainwash people - as long as it's called out for what it is - a technique to stop thought.

Oblate spheroid huh? Please tell me which one of these is an "oblate spheroid". Please also tell me why North America grew on one and not the other. Courtesy of everyone's favorite 'science' organization - NASA:

1-nasa-america-size-changes-with-the-seasons-orbital-photo.jpg

Clue mark - NEITHER of them are "oblate" - they are SPHERES. You know what else - the North American Continent GREW on the one to the right.

Now the beloved NASA spokesman, renowned astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator Neil Degrasse Tyson is telling us the earth looks like a pear.

No Mark, you have not gone to space and seen the earth and nearly everything NASA does is deception. But people like you want to believe it, so they can get away with it.

Regarding community opinions.

I'm fine with point by point debate, but if this is what you really wanted - then address the points rather than trying to rally everyone to YOUR VIEWPOINT and claiming you are doing it for sake of community cohesion. This is nothing less than bullying behavior. I know this is a touchy subject, but we're all grown ups here and rational and reasonable debate can only happen when the issues themselves are debated - not swept under the rug because PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF THEM.

ImaginaryDay2 · Nov 26, 2016

Stravinsk said:
rational and reasonable debate can only happen when the issues themselves are debated - not swept under the rug because PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF THEM.

You find this "rational and reasonable"?

https://ronmamita.wordpress.com/consciousness-shift-archives/not-a-globe/

God help us.

MarkFL · Nov 26, 2016

No, I have not been to space, however I took a high altitude flight over the Pacific and the curvature of the Earth was clearly visible, and I spent a number of years in the Navy which included many hours on watch with binocular telescopes observing ships appearing from the top down as the distance to them decreased.

You are right that I didn't watch any of the posted videos. The notion of a flat Earth and a vast scientific conspiracy is too absurd for me to entertain, like squaring the circle or a perpetual motion machine.

Stravinsk · Nov 26, 2016

ImaginaryDay2 said:
You find this "rational and reasonable"?

https://ronmamita.wordpress.com/consciousness-shift-archives/not-a-globe/

God help us.

That's not a link I have provided and while the subject matter seems similar it crashed my browser twice (memory issues) and I am unfamiliar with the details of it's contents.

Yes, the issue of debate on flat earth in general, and the subject matter provided in the videos I have linked (the first of which deals with the so called footage of the ISS, and the second some points on Flat earth) - in addition to the 200 proofs by Eric Dubay (also linked - free book) can be the basis for rational debate.

Everyone thinks this is stupid or funny or both. It is not. All the major civilizations and religions had this belief until it was slowly worked out to be replaced by the Globe Earth model which was introduced slowly, adopted by the RCC and finally "confirmed" with fake space agency NASA. There is so much fakery one can find with regards to them it is mind boggling how so many people just ignore it and don't draw the obvious conclusion - they are lying. Covering something up. And they are doing it for a reason.

The bible itself - which Christians everywhere regard as Holy Scripture and God's Word (a belief I do share to a certain extent - I do believe the Bible to have many spiritual truths, but I also reject portions of it.) This book also strongly hints at Flat Earth. You can't get around the issue except to ignore the verses or apply a heavily biased interpretation to them that basically render those verses LIES. Yes, Christians who have accepted Globe earth must outright obfuscate those verses in order to fit the model they say modern science has given them.

Here are just a small samples of things you just can't believe if you're a Christian that thinks we live on a spinning ball:

1 Samuel 2:8
He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

1 Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:
9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.

Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Job 9:6 who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.

Psalms 104:5 Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 24:18 He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

And the list goes on and on. How does the devil show Jesus "all the kingdoms of the world" if the earth is a Globe? Were there no kingdoms on the other side? How will everyone see the second coming as described in Revelation on a Globe - are there going to be multiple Christs appearing or just one that appears over a 24 hour period in one spot?

The point is - and this is the truth - the Globe Earth Model mocks the bible. It also mocks every OTHER major ancient religious system which all shared very similar flat earth models.

ImaginaryDay2 · Nov 26, 2016

ImaginaryDay2 said:
You find this "rational and reasonable"?

https://ronmamita.wordpress.com/consciousness-shift-archives/not-a-globe/

God help us.

Stravinsk said:
That's not a link I have provided and while the subject matter seems similar it crashed my browser twice (memory issues) and I am unfamiliar with the details of it's contents.

It's the source for your pic here (not 'NASA'):

Stravinsk said:
Oblate spheroid huh? Please tell me which one of these is an "oblate spheroid". Please also tell me why North America grew on one and not the other. Courtesy of everyone's favorite 'science' organization - NASA:

https://ronmamita.files.wordpress.c...ith-the-seasons-orbital-photo.jpg?w=918&h=718

Somehow, reading the site, I'm doubtful that you're "unfamiliar"

Rens · Nov 26, 2016

https://youtu.be/BmGRRxOf6dU

Stravinsk · Nov 26, 2016

Rens said:
https://youtu.be/BmGRRxOf6dU

Argument #1: (moon inverted)
You get the same effect looking at a picture on a ceiling standing on two different sides of a large room.

Argument #2: Telescopic images of spherical planets.
Those do not look real to me.
Even if they are real, the spherical shape does not indicate the Earth is spherical. Do you assume the table on which a pool game is played should be a sphere because the balls are spheres?

(note: 2:16 and a little futher) - this youtuber did not get these images himself, he borrowed them from another and he says "you can get a telescope for a couple of thousand bucks *or something*" indicates that he probably doesn't even own one.

Argument #3:
(The moon's light reflects off the sun).
You do know it's possible to see both a partial moon and the sun at the same time once a month, don't you? Ever noticed this phenominon in the sky?
The moon's phases also do not change - they should be the opposite every 6 months if the earth and moon are on the other side of the Sun in the Heliocentric model.

But they aren't.

Argument #4: (2:53) - Simple logic cannot let you ASSUME that if you see spheres in the heavens that earth is a sphere. Why should it? Oh that's right, it's not "simple logic" that lets you assume - it's your ball earth bias.

Argument #5 (Curvature 4:28)
Argument totally debunked via various methods. Zoom lenses and laser beams on flat earth - and lots of amateur footage of high flying balloons and rockets that - guess what - show no curvature. The curvature you do see from commercial jumps (like the red bull jump) are from fish eye lenses - or are outright faked like the video in the title of this thread shows.

Lame argument that amateur rockets and balloons "haven't got high enough" to see curvature disregards the given circumference in the globe earth model, and it contradicts the belief that we can see curvature via appearing to sink ships on the horizon at sea level.

Argument #6 (appeal to authority)
I generally don't accept this type of argument - but in the case of Eric Dubay's book I have linked earlier in this thread - a number of people are quoted, including engineers who do things like build bridges and railroad tracks. Even on long bridges or tracks covering vast distances - the so called "curvature of the earth" is not taken into account.

Sigh...I stopped after "these are...common sense things". This is not an argument when debating a topic such as this.

Rens · Nov 26, 2016

Stravinsk said:
That's not a link I have provided and while the subject matter seems similar it crashed my browser twice (memory issues) and I am unfamiliar with the details of it's contents.

Yes, the issue of debate on flat earth in general, and the subject matter provided in the videos I have linked (the first of which deals with the so called footage of the ISS, and the second some points on Flat earth) - in addition to the 200 proofs by Eric Dubay (also linked - free book) can be the basis for rational debate.

Everyone thinks this is stupid or funny or both. It is not. All the major civilizations and religions had this belief until it was slowly worked out to be replaced by the Globe Earth model which was introduced slowly, adopted by the RCC and finally "confirmed" with fake space agency NASA. There is so much fakery one can find with regards to them it is mind boggling how so many people just ignore it and don't draw the obvious conclusion - they are lying. Covering something up. And they are doing it for a reason.

The bible itself - which Christians everywhere regard as Holy Scripture and God's Word (a belief I do share to a certain extent - I do believe the Bible to have many spiritual truths, but I also reject portions of it.) This book also strongly hints at Flat Earth. You can't get around the issue except to ignore the verses or apply a heavily biased interpretation to them that basically render those verses LIES. Yes, Christians who have accepted Globe earth must outright obfuscate those verses in order to fit the model they say modern science has given them.

Here are just a small samples of things you just can't believe if you're a Christian that thinks we live on a spinning ball:

1 Samuel 2:8
He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

1 Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:
9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.

Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Job 9:6 who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.

Psalms 104:5 Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 24:18 He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

And the list goes on and on. How does the devil show Jesus "all the kingdoms of the world" if the earth is a Globe? Were there no kingdoms on the other side? How will everyone see the second coming as described in Revelation on a Globe - are there going to be multiple Christs appearing or just one that appears over a 24 hour period in one spot?

The point is - and this is the truth - the Globe Earth Model mocks the bible. It also mocks every OTHER major ancient religious system which all shared very similar flat earth models.

No the Kuran says it's a sphere. I'd have to look up the text, saw it yesterday.
Oh wait it says it's an egg.

On a flat earth not every eye can see Him either if He comes back as a Man in Israel, unless everyone puts on their television or if He travels everywhere, He could go through walls.
Pillars can also be inside a globe.
One text says it cannot be moved, the other that He will shake it.
They ignore that He was in the heart of the earth. Just like with any theology there are texts that say the opposite and to believe one thing you have to explain the others differently. Flat earthers do exactly the same. Jonah went under the mountains, under the earth crust.

The deep closed around me;
Weeds were wrapped around my head.
6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains;
The earth with its bars closed behind me forever;
Yet You have brought up my life from the pit.
A flat earth doesn't have a heart.
If it's a circle it must be at least a very thick one.

Rens · Nov 26, 2016

this youtuber did not get these images himself, he borrowed them from another and he says "you can get a telescope for a couple of thousand bucks *or something*" indicates that he probably doesn't even own one.

I think you're right.
I owe one, but a cheap 100 euro thing and unfortunately the kids ruined it. I had no idea how to use it anyway lol.
We have a place here with real telescopes where you can watch for free.

Stravinsk · Nov 26, 2016

MarkFL said:
No, I have not been to space, however I took a high altitude flight over the Pacific and the curvature of the Earth was clearly visible, and I spent a number of years in the Navy which included many hours on watch with binocular telescopes observing ships appearing from the top down as the distance to them decreased.

You are right that I didn't watch any of the posted videos. The notion of a flat Earth and a vast scientific conspiracy is too absurd for me to entertain, like squaring the circle or a perpetual motion machine.

That's interesting Mark. I've flown between Australia and the USA numerous times and unless the plane has a rounded window - then there is no curvature to be seen.

Your binoculars evidence? Since you won't bother to look at the second video in the thread (or the first, or the link I provided earlier) - well then I guess you'll just have to take my word that it's debunked.

Absurd is believing a government agency that has lied to us so many times in so many ways. No answer to all their different "balls"? To their proven fake footage? How about those Van Allen belts that a Nasa spokesman has said present a difficulty to get through but apparently all the original moon missions got through without issue? Oh wait...the concept wasn't known at that time...

So is the earth a sphere like they have shown us or is it an oblate spheroid? Do you also believe it's pear shaped too as Tyson says? C'mon.

tango · Nov 26, 2016

Stravinsk said:
That's interesting Mark. I've flown between Australia and the USA numerous times and unless the plane has a rounded window - then there is no curvature to be seen.

Your binoculars evidence? Since you won't bother to look at the second video in the thread (or the first, or the link I provided earlier) - well then I guess you'll just have to take my word that it's debunked.

Absurd is believing a government agency that has lied to us so many times in so many ways. No answer to all their different "balls"? To their proven fake footage? How about those Van Allen belts that a Nasa spokesman has said present a difficulty to get through but apparently all the original moon missions got through without issue? Oh wait...the concept wasn't known at that time...

So is the earth a sphere like they have shown us or is it an oblate spheroid? Do you also believe it's pear shaped too as Tyson says? C'mon.

If the earth is flat then logically there has to either be a literal "end of the world" where you can't go any further. If the earth is essentially spherical then it makes sense that taking a succession of short steps might allow us to move from the European mainland to Iceland to Greenland to Canada to the US mainland to Hawaii to Japan to China etc. If the earth is flat you'd need to figure where they all are relative to each other such that every single distance between them works.

If the earth is flat, presumably it would have to have land all around the outside, or the oceans would flow off the edge. Presumably at some point someone somewhere would be able to stand at the edge and shout "hey look, it doesn't go any further, this round earth idea is a crock". Anyone would be able to go to the edge to see it for themselves, maybe take photos. Are there any such photos?

If the earth is flat then surely there would be more useful evidence than "hey, some guy made a video, therefore it's true".

NASA and Facebook tricked you

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