Is faith a wholly voluntary act?

Lamb · Oct 27, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
I do not agree that faith is an act of God in any special sense that others things are not also acts of God.

What do you mean by "act of God"?

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2016

Lämmchen said:
What do you mean by "act of God"?

Something that God does and presumably that people don't.

Lamb · Oct 27, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
Something that God does and presumably that people don't.

Does for what?

Rens · Oct 27, 2016

God gives the gift. You have to use it.

Lamb · Oct 27, 2016

As Rens points out, God gives us faith and then by faith we live our lives, loving God and our neighbor and doing the good works that the Holy Spirit has plans for us to do.

God is the one who gives faith and strengthens faith and He does so by His Word (Hebrews 12 states that Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith).

Our faith is confidence in what we hope for and do not see (Hebrews 11). Hebrews 11 continues to show how the faithful lived out their faith (by faith).

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2016

Lämmchen said:
Does for what?

I have no idea what you're asking.

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2016

Rens said:
God gives the gift. You have to use it.

If you have to use it then its use if wholly voluntary, right?

Rens · Oct 27, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
If you have to use it then its use if wholly voluntary, right?

Yes

Lamb · Oct 27, 2016

MoreCoffee, in your OP you asked about people being able to decide to have faith and now it seems you're going in a different direction. Is that so? I'm just trying to follow the path.

Rens · Oct 27, 2016

If you have it using it is voluntary, but if you don't have it it's not always a choice. Following Him or searching for Him and asking for it (Lord I believe, help my unbelief) is a choice. I had faith that if there was a God of course He would show me that He existed, why not?
How can they believe if they never heard of Him? How hear without a preacher? That is not a voluntary choice. Or if you're blind and don't see it. That's not a choice. If you don't want to see it or only on your terms of how a good God has to behave in order for you to believe in Him, that's pride, that's a choice to harden your heart or be humble.

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2016

Lämmchen said:
MoreCoffee, in your OP you asked about people being able to decide to have faith and now it seems you're going in a different direction. Is that so? I'm just trying to follow the path.

I'm following the same path. People do decide to have faith or not. Their reasons for making the decision vary. Some may decide just to fit in. Some because it makes them feel good. I am sure there are many varieties.

Lamb · Oct 27, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
I'm following the same path. People do decide to have faith or not. Their reasons for making the decision vary. Some may decide just to fit in. Some because it makes them feel good. I am sure there are many varieties.

Your denomination believes it's a gift. That means it's not a decision in order to get faith since it's given as a gift.

Since God gives us faith as a gift, the only "decision" is to stay in the faith or reject it. Staying doesn't mean that we contribute to our salvation. It means we acknowledge what God has done and have received it. That's "by grace through faith" as Ephesians teaches.

Lamb · Oct 27, 2016

Rens said:
If you have it using it is voluntary, but if you don't have it it's not always a choice. Following Him or searching for Him and asking for it (Lord I believe, help my unbelief) is a choice. I had faith that if there was a God of course He would show me that He existed, why not?
How can they believe if they never heard of Him? How hear without a preacher? That is not a voluntary choice. Or if you're blind and don't see it. That's not a choice. If you don't want to see it or only on your terms of how a good God has to behave in order for you to believe in Him, that's pride, that's a choice to harden your heart or be humble.

Your post confuses me as it seems to back up both sides?

In the part where you say Lord I believe, help my unbelief, that's a believer wanting more faith. Unbelievers don't ask for faith since they don't believe in God. That's why receiving faith is always a gift from God.

Rens · Oct 27, 2016

Lämmchen said:
Your post confuses me as it seems to back up both sides?

In the part where you say Lord I believe, help my unbelief, that's a believer wanting more faith. Unbelievers don't ask for faith since they don't believe in God. That's why receiving faith is always a gift from God.

But that man who said it was not a believer. He just saw Jesus healing all those people and had some faith, enough to ask Him to heal his son.
It depends. If someone has never heard of Him or they rationalize everything, that's not a choice. But you can't say: oh those poor pharisees, God didn't give them that gift. They had faith. They were waiting for Jesus to do a miracle, so they could kill Him. That wasn't saving faith. They did not believe in Him. He didn't fit their description of a good messiah and they were proud. That's a choice. They rejected Him, so they didn't get faith.

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2016

Lämmchen said:
Your denomination believes it's a gift. That means it's not a decision in order to get faith since it's given as a gift.

Since God gives us faith as a gift, the only "decision" is to stay in the faith or reject it. Staying doesn't mean that we contribute to our salvation. It means we acknowledge what God has done and have received it. That's "by grace through faith" as Ephesians teaches.

It may be a gift given to all or to all who hear the gospel or something quite wide rather than narrow an as Rens suggested a gift needs to be accepted before it is usable. Maybe the gift is for all and only some decide to use it.

popsthebuilder · Oct 27, 2016

Indeed faith is not wholly voluntary.

It is to believe, or know.

You cannot choose to know a thing, or even believe it. Either you do or you do not.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2016

popsthebuilder said:
Indeed faith is not wholly voluntary.

It is to believe, or know.

You cannot choose to know a thing, or even believe it. Either you do or you do not.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

I think you can choose to believe a thing. For example, I can choose to believe something about you. It may be true or not. But I can choose.

Lamb · Oct 27, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
I think you can choose to believe a thing. For example, I can choose to believe something about you. It may be true or not. But I can choose.

Please state your biblical verse for this.

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2016

Lämmchen said:
Please state your biblical verse for this.

Why do I need one. I can choose to believe that you have blue eyes. I can choose to believe that popsthebuilder has black hair. I don't need a bible verse for that.

Rens · Oct 27, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
Why do I need one. I can choose to believe that you have blue eyes. I can choose to believe that popsthebuilder has black hair. I don't need a bible verse for that.

Can you choose to believe Santa exists?
Or are you then fooling yourself, because there is enough evidence that he doesn't?

Is faith a wholly voluntary act?

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