• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrassed
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 11 to 17 of 17

    Ethics & Debate Center - Thread: Atheism ...

    1. #11
      MarkFL's Avatar
      MarkFL is offline La Villa Strangiato
      Valued Contributor
      54
      In Relationship
      Swamped.
       
      Mood:
      Geeky
       
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      St. Augustine, FL.
      Posts
      3,010
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      2,188
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      11,942
      Level
      32
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      14.34%
      Rep Power
      191
      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Yes, I see what you mean. Keep up the fight to inform. Information ought to help rather damage faith (I reckon).
      Yes, my goal has never been to undermine anyone's faith. I just want any would-be "atheist-slayers" to understand the potential position(s) of their adversaries, and why those who make a positive claim carry a burden of proof. Many fail to see this, and are incorrectly under the impression that the playing field isn't level when a person who simply rejects a claim (made with no compelling evidence behind it) isn't burdened to justify this rejection, as it's the default position. If everyone correctly understands the basic rules of debate, a lot of frustration can be avoided...on both sides.
      Living in the pools, They soon forget about the sea...— Rush, "Natural Science" (1980)

      “There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” — Søren Kierkegaard

    2. Likes Rens liked this post
    3. #12
      MoreCoffee is offline Silver Member
      Sabbaticle
       
      Mood:
      Tired
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Perth
      Posts
      14,138
      Country
      Australia
      CH Cash
      10,778
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      37,570
      Level
      51
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      20.45%
      Rep Power
      568
      Quote Originally Posted by MarkFL View Post
      Yes, my goal has never been to undermine anyone's faith. I just want any would-be "atheist-slayers" to understand the potential position(s) of their adversaries, and why those who make a positive claim carry a burden of proof. Many fail to see this, and are incorrectly under the impression that the playing field isn't level when a person who simply rejects a claim (made with no compelling evidence behind it) isn't burdened to justify this rejection, as it's the default position. If everyone correctly understands the basic rules of debate, a lot of frustration can be avoided...on both sides.
      Giving reasons for why one is not convinced is good. I reckon many atheists can give a credible account of reasons for their position. Yet I agree, there is no burden of proof on an atheist who says "I do not believe in gods because I've seen no convincing evidence for belief in God".

    4. Likes MarkFL liked this post
    5. #13
      MarkFL's Avatar
      MarkFL is offline La Villa Strangiato
      Valued Contributor
      54
      In Relationship
      Swamped.
       
      Mood:
      Geeky
       
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      St. Augustine, FL.
      Posts
      3,010
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      2,188
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      11,942
      Level
      32
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      14.34%
      Rep Power
      191
      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Giving reasons for why one is not convinced is good. I reckon many atheists can give a credible account of reasons for their position. Yet I agree, there is no burden of proof on an atheist who says "I do not believe in gods because I've seen no convincing evidence for belief in God".
      Yes, and being familiar with the fallacies and empty arguments used by misguided debaters is good too. But, I would only actually debate if someone is actively trying to convince me that their position is one I should adopt. I would only ask for evidence when someone claims to me personally that they know something that concerns me when I suspect they simply believe it instead.

      If someone tells me they know God exists, I have no issue with that because I assume their knowledge comes by faith. Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself. I don't agree with the "New Atheists" who call us to treat such a claim like we would if someone says they know the Easter Bunny is real. But if they tell me I better change my ways because judgement days is coming, and I will feel the wrath of God, etc., then I'm going to ask them for evidence for this because "changing my ways" is a tedious chore, and needn't be done unless I have some compelling reason to do so.
      Living in the pools, They soon forget about the sea...— Rush, "Natural Science" (1980)

      “There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” — Søren Kierkegaard

    6. Likes Rens liked this post
    7. #14
      Rens's Avatar
      Rens is offline Expert Member
      47
      In Relationship
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2015
      Posts
      4,754
      Country
      Netherlands
      CH Cash
      20,226
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      18,054
      Level
      38
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      16.91%
      Rep Power
      373
      I don't think it's very smart to warn an atheist that doomsday is coming. It'll have the opposite effect.
      But if someone is about to die I don't care. You have to warn if you're sure something is the truth. Not aggressive or annoying. One guy who used to be a believer, he was dying, I just sent him a card: hey don't forget to arrange your ticket to heaven. Here's how you do it. My sister said he listened. She doesn't believe, but she said to him when he asked her about it just before he died: yes better do that.

    8. #15
      popsthebuilder is offline Veteran Member
      Single
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      1,057
      CH Cash
      31,313
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      3,607
      Level
      19
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      22.53%
      Rep Power
      76
      MarkFL,

      You would know better that I would, and I'm not trying to offend or debate.

      It seems that there are different levels of disbelief in GOD. I find that the majority of atheists are actually what seems to be referred to as soft atheism. It seems, from my interactions with atheists that many are actually deists to some extent. Not denying a higher power or intelligent design per say, but denying it's care for, and, or, interaction with It's creation.

      Is this accurate to you?

      I'm not claiming that you are or are not a deist.

      Thank you in advance.

      Peace

      Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
      Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

    9. #16
      Josiah's Avatar
      Josiah is offline Expert Member
      Moderator
      Supporting Member
      Married
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      4,962
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      111,089
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      40,667
      Level
      52
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      80.45%
      Rep Power
      581
      Quote Originally Posted by MarkFL View Post
      Yes, and being familiar with the fallacies and empty arguments used by misguided debaters is good too. But, I would only actually debate if someone is actively trying to convince me that their position is one I should adopt.

      True. I suppose one could proclaim a position (such as GOD IS - "Theism" or the antitheis of GOD IS NOT - "Atheism") and not care to defend it as true. I'm okay with that. What I have no respect for is the one who attacks, ridicules, mocks a postion demanding objective, absolute PROOF for that he will accept..... but then runs for his own position on the same thing. For example, one holds that there is life on Mars. Someone mocks that, ridicules it, demands PROOF of such..... but then runs away of his own position that there is no life on Mars, insisting his own position is exempt from any need for proof, accountability, responsiblity. That double standard, the hypocrisy, the GAME is - sadly - not uncommon.




      If someone tells me they know God exists, I have no issue with that because I assume their knowledge comes by faith. Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself. I don't agree with the "New Atheists" who call us to treat such a claim like we would if someone says they know the Easter Bunny is real. But if they tell me I better change my ways because judgement days is coming, and I will feel the wrath of God, etc., then I'm going to ask them for evidence for this because "changing my ways" is a tedious chore, and needn't be done unless I have some compelling reason to do so.

      I largely agree. REGARDLESS of ones position, there needs to be respect (as well as a "level playing field" void of epistemological games, tricks, gymnastics). The Christian Bible tells us to "speak the truth in love." Some forget that last part.....


      I know such Theists exist (I find them quite offensive). I have an admittedly limited experience of Atheists (and all but a couple "met" only online) - they seem very rare. But my experience is that they tend to be a very angry, bitter, hateful people - an anger that is very puzzling (do people get SO gluded, so angry if one holds that UFO's are real?). They seem obsessed with mocking, ridiculing, condemning Theists..... I've been told in big, embolden words that I'm stupid, ignorant, uneducated, unthinking - without them knowing a thing about me except that I accept that God is. And they DEMAND - over and over and over and over - PROOF for this position, object and absolute PROOF of a purely scientific, physical nature that they'd accept in full knowledge that obviously the supernatural cannot be defended by a denial of the supernatural. The anger, the hate... and yes the disrespect (they often will state they don't respect me - me being so uneducated, so unthinking, of such low IQ).... it's hard to understand. Something for Dr. Phil, I suppose LOL.

      My experience with Agnostics is very different. I know lots of Agnostics. They tend to be honest, thoughtful people - respectful as a whole. Void of the intense anger that characterizes Atheists in my experience. And since they by no means reject the concept of God, they have no felt need to mock such. Indeed, I have had Agnostics (well, two anyway) who expressed a certain envy of my faith - and the comfort, hope, strength and inspiration it gives to me. I understand their position and respect it, and that tends to be mutual.



      - Josiah




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 10-25-2016 at 09:31 AM.

    10. #17
      DHoffmann's Avatar
      DHoffmann is offline Prodigy Member
      33
      Single
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      802
      CH Cash
      3,980
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      2,709
      Level
      16
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      97.03%
      Rep Power
      83
      I heard of an atheist that said something like "if you believe in a god, I dont... and if you dont believe in god, I do" I never understood this, I think he must be implying that if no one believed in God then it would in theory answer his prayers that his type of god (atheist world) exist... go figure

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
      Last edited by DHoffmann; 11-26-2017 at 02:23 PM.

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •