• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrassed
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
    Results 11 to 20 of 97

    Ethics & Debate Center - Thread: Why I'm Pro-Life

    1. #11
      psalms 91's Avatar
      psalms 91 is online now Silver Member
      Moderator
      Supporting Member
      69
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Location
      Pa
      Posts
      12,213
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      4,249
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (2,358,514 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      51,917
      Level
      57
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      98.06%
      Rep Power
      561
      It is a human being and it is murder and I wish people would stop confusing that with a womans right to choose, she should have no choice when it comes to life of another human being
      Isaiah 40:31

    2. Likes Ackbach liked this post
    3. #12
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
      45
      Widow/Widower
      Mood:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Posts
      3,126
      Country
      Australia
      CH Cash
      4,289
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (14,625 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      12,689
      Level
      32
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      97.46%
      Rep Power
      0
      What do I think?

      I think that if pro-life people would extend their arguments to wars of aggression, convenience or because of manufactured fear the world might be a slightly better place. A truly strong pro life position would not limit it to the unborn, or the unborn in one's country of residence and pride, or even for the grown for reasons of "national security" "defending our interests", "fighting communism", "fighting for freedom abroad", or "defeating the tactic called terrorism".

      Not to assume anyone's positions on these latter things - but I do stand by the definition. A strong pro-life position doesn't limit itself to a subset of people, but extends to everyone and is only compromised by the gravest of circumstances - usually circumstances involving the continued violation of life to begin with. Revenge does not factor into this.

    4. #13
      Josiah's Avatar
      Josiah is offline Bronze Member
      Supporting Member
      Married
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      6,109
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      117,675
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      62,104
      Level
      62
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      0.81%
      Rep Power
      861
      If the pro-choice people actually believed an ounce of their whole argument, then they would give the choice AT LEAST EQUALLY to the unborn child - after all, he or she is the one who is going to be murdered as a result of the "choice." But the argument - which comes lock, stock and barrel from the pro-slavery folks of some years ago - ONLY applies to the powerful over the less powerful. Just as "choice" was entirely, completely, absolutely forbidden to the Black, so the same argument now insists the "choice" is entirely, completely, absolutely forbidden to the unborn. The whole apologetic is a ruse meant to cover-up the real issue: the more powerful trumping the less powerful; might = morality.

      Yes, I am opposed to the murder of the innocent after birth, too. There ARE complicated issues of "just war" "self defense" and "capital punishment" (the latter I'm passionately opposed to), in a world populated by 7.3 SINNERS - things are often..... messy, and as stated in the OP, I agree that respect for life and for the least powerful DOES apply equally after the toe exists the birth canal as before that microsecond. I think that "self-defense" (defending one from a very real PHYSICAL thread to one's life) is complicated but perhaps protecting the innocent and defenseless and less powerful - well, the pro-life argument perhaps be applied there (although, again, it's not simple)? "Just war" is an issue I don't claim to understand: WW 2 is perhaps easier..... the Gulf wars probably not - but another issue for a different thread - but yes, the general principles outlined in the OP do apply there.



      Thanks to all for reading, considering and responding to the OP



      - Josiah

    5. Likes MarkFL, Ackbach liked this post
    6. #14
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
      45
      Widow/Widower
      Mood:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Posts
      3,126
      Country
      Australia
      CH Cash
      4,289
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (14,625 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      12,689
      Level
      32
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      97.46%
      Rep Power
      0
      ^^ That response sounds as if it is in response to my own.

      To clarify - I am pro life. However, I do not see the consistency across the spectrum for many people who also say they are pro life. They usually limit it to the unborn, and all other violations for violent aggression (initiating or provoking) are given excuses that show where the loyalties really lie.

    7. #15
      Josiah's Avatar
      Josiah is offline Bronze Member
      Supporting Member
      Married
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      6,109
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      117,675
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      62,104
      Level
      62
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      0.81%
      Rep Power
      861
      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      ^^ That response sounds as if it is in response to my own.

      To clarify - I am pro life. However, I do not see the consistency across the spectrum for many people who also say they are pro life. They usually limit it to the unborn, and all other violations for violent aggression (initiating or provoking) are given excuses that show where the loyalties really lie.

      As I do in people who say they are "pro-choice."

      I suspect you and I are pretty much on the same page here..... (and probably on lots of other stuff, too - LOL)



      I must admit - I THOUGHT this would generate at least some debate. I admit too that I struggle to see how surveys (and CERTAINLY voting) seems to indicate most are boldly "Pro-choice" because I live in one of the most socially liberal states in the US and most of my associates are not religious people at all - yet it's pretty hard (for me) to find anyone who is not pro-life. Oh well.....


      Thanks everyone!



      - Josiah

    8. Likes MarkFL liked this post
    9. #16
      Josiah's Avatar
      Josiah is offline Bronze Member
      Supporting Member
      Married
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      6,109
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      117,675
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      62,104
      Level
      62
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      0.81%
      Rep Power
      861
      I mentioned in the OP that when I was in my teens, I volunteered at an "abortion alternative" center (often called "pregnancy crisis" centers). It was called Birth Choice, a not-for-profit, non-sectarian service organization for mothers who choose the alternative of birth rather than abortion.

      I was home schooled, but through a big Baptist school. The school had regular classes but also offered a track for home schooling - they supplied the books, the lesson plans, etc. and also did the testing and evaluating. We in that track had a teacher assigned to us and we meet in groups monthly and with our teacher weekly. Nearly all associated with this school were "evangelical" Christians but there were other exceptions and they actually allowed homeschoolers to "opt out" of the Religion stuff. Anyway, the school required quite a lot of volunteering. We had to keep track of the hours and provide documentation of it. Half could be in our church (and I did supply some there) but I did the rest via the BSA (I was a scout for a LONG time) and at Birth Choice. I wanted to do this with Birth Choice because my mom helped them (mostly with donations and fundraising) and because even as a young teen, I was prolife. OBVIOUSLY, they did NOT want a teen BOY involved with helping these mothers (some no older than me), so I was kept behind the scenes. I did office work, I worked in the storeroom (where we kept the food, clothes, diapers, etc.), and I worked with a man who would pick up and deliver stuff (furniture, refirgs, etc). But most of the time, there were no mothers and I could talk with the counselors (all trained women - most either Catholic or LDS). When I started, I was a VERY naive boy - amazingly innocent in this matter. I grew up. My long conversations caused me to really think about my sexuality and to realize what a powerful issue pregnancy is. Sure.... Birth Choice appealed to mothers who WANTED their child (otherwise, they went to Planned Parenthood!) and while these moms there often married (it's wrong that abortions are done mostly to unwed teens), there were a lot of very young and vulnerable girls who had little by way of resources or support except from their parents (and MAYBE the "father").... but they were often very pressured into getting an abortion. Parents wanted the "problem" to go away (and this got clouded in very nice sounding ways)... guys just wanted to avoid 21 years of child support and occasionally a criminal record and possible lifetime designation as a sex offender. And abortions are made free and easy - often "sold" in marked contrast to the obvious high cost of raising a kid. The pressure can be ENORMOUS. Even to the point of kicking out the mother unless she agreed. So much for "pro-CHOICE" (even for the mom - there NEVER is "choice" for the baby). Of course, husbands can apply that pressure, too. Whether the mother is moved by some psychological "bonding" or some biochemistry or just a mother's sense of protection and nurture, many try to resist this extreme PRESSURE they get - from the "father," from their own parents, from "friends." It's an over-used word, but they are often victims. Abortions often create two victims. And yes, a big part of Birth Choice is ongoing grief counseling for those who have had an abortion. Society that doesn't WANT to feel guilty never tells THAT story.... it is to their agenda to relate the whole thing as equal in every way to taking out the garbage: of no greater significance, of no different morality. And.... there's another issue that NEVER gets told: the guys. Sometimes, it's the FATHER who defends the life against the mother - and is hurt when she gets an abortion, killing a child that is EQUALLY his. Yup, we got GUYS coming in for counsel, support - not often, but it happened. A lot of my "stuff" in terms of sexuality and parenthood and male/female relations was formed by those conversations with the counselors and volunteers at that facility.....



      Again, thanks



      - Josiah

    10. Likes Ackbach liked this post
    11. #17
      Alithis is offline Expert Member
      Married
      Jesus is Lord and he is coming
      back to judge in
      righteousness.
       
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      New Zealand
      Posts
      2,680
      CH Cash
      2,998
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      5,385
      Level
      22
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      88.13%
      Rep Power
      0
      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      I agree, abortion is murder and I stand strongly in the pro choice corner


      be it what ever - if it is not Godly love .. it will defy the perfect law of life .

    12. #18
      psalms 91's Avatar
      psalms 91 is online now Silver Member
      Moderator
      Supporting Member
      69
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Location
      Pa
      Posts
      12,213
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      4,249
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (2,358,514 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      51,917
      Level
      57
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      98.06%
      Rep Power
      561
      Quote Originally Posted by Alithis View Post
      be it what ever - if it is not Godly love .. it will defy the perfect law of life .
      Love is not committing murder
      Isaiah 40:31

    13. #19
      Alithis is offline Expert Member
      Married
      Jesus is Lord and he is coming
      back to judge in
      righteousness.
       
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      New Zealand
      Posts
      2,680
      CH Cash
      2,998
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      5,385
      Level
      22
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      88.13%
      Rep Power
      0
      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      Love is not committing murder
      Yeah... Exactly .

    14. #20
      Ruth's Avatar
      Ruth is offline Expert Member
      Mood:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Location
      Midwest
      Posts
      3,835
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      9,546
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (18,195 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      15,413
      Level
      35
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      75.45%
      Rep Power
      324
      I am pro-life when it comes to myself yet I see what can happen to women when abortion clinics are not available. Women will try to have them anyways and they will and they will often die because they are done by some idiot who doesn't know what they are doing. That happened for years and years and years and years. I am not for abortion as a means of birth control. I feel it should be allowed when the mother's life is in danger to carry out the pregnancy, or she has been raped and got pregnant from it or if the baby is going to die anyway inside of her. And for those reasons only am I pro-choice. I am about saving the mother's life and am not a baby killer.

    Tags for this Thread

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •