- Joined
- Jun 12, 2015
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- 13,684
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- Lutheran
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- Conservative
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- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
.
SOME THOUGHTS AROUND UNITY AND DISAGREEMENT AMONG CHRISTIANS:
Faith:
ALL Christians are of one faith. It is faith in Christ as our Savior. ALL Christians share this faith and are one in this faith. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ. And we are a part of His church by function of that same faith. IMO, one would not be a Christian without this faith in Christ - and all who have that faith in Christ are Christians and members of His one, holy, catholic church (the communion of saints). By function of this one faith which is in Christ, we ARE (fully) brothers and sisters in Christ.
Customs, Traditions, Teachings:
Of course, not all 2.2 billion Christians agree with all other 2.2 billion Christians about every viewpoint, custom, tradition, practice, policy, interpretation, application, etc. Duh. Never have. Never will. In some cases, it would be nice. In other cases, it matters not. In some cases, the diversity might even be a good thing.
Unity:
IMO, the Bible and the Creed are correct and that there IS ONE faith, ONE Lord. That there IS ONE holy catholic church. Always has been. Always will be. Man cannot - CANNOT - change that reality, no matter how much ego and pride, no matter how much they condemn and rebuke, no matter how great their propensity to excommunicate each other, no matter how they try to institutionalize Christianity, no matter how much Christians do as Christ commanded us not to do: lord it over others like the Gentiles do. They CANNOT destroy His church. Soli Deo Gloria!
Dogma:
It is likely unavoidable that Christians will ATTEMPT to wrap the things of God around their puny, fallen, limited, sinful, human brains. And IMO there is nothing wrong, per se, with that. But the 2.2 billion Christians currently on the planet (and unknown billions now in heaven) don't do this exactly the same. SOME of this difference is perhaps more language, more articulation than a genuine difference, but significant differences do occur.
Some of these views have been seen as problematic. There are no new views (nothin' new under the sun), there are no new interpretations or theological theories or opinions. ALL have been around for many, many centuries. And Christians have considered all of these. They've prayed, thought, discussed, prayed, debated, discussed, prayer for CENTURIES. Some early ones (as Christianity was forming its theology) were seen as so problematic, so divisive that Christians came together - as community - in an ECUMENICAL manner to address them. This happened in Seven Ecumenical Councils over 500 years (roughly 300 - 800 AD) identifying and rebuking several views that now are historically, ecumenically proclaimed "heresies." While this ecumenical declaration after centuries of prayer, thought, discussion and debate DID "settle" the issue for most, it did not for all - and these heresies often survived (although as tiny, tiny minorities - excommunicated minorites). And because (sadly!!!!) a LOT of Protestant and cult clergy and leaders have very little education in the history of all this, in doctrine - several are "reinventing" these heresies anew. Regurgitating them, as my Greek Orthodox friend puts it. But for the most part, these "heresies" (I use that word in the historic sense, not as personal opinion) have been put behind us - although there is a GREAT need for laity (and too many clergy) to be educated concerning them.
BUT..... the level of unity among the great majority of Christians is nothing less than AMAZING! Soli Deo Gloria! Physics prof of mine said long ago: "It all makes sense until you get to the edges, then it all gets crazy." LOL. It seems true in MANY things! But, in Christianity, I think we quickly discover that perhaps 90-95% of Christians agree on perhaps 90-95% of teachings. The fact that over 90% agree to the Nicene Creed is HUGE!!!! And we agree on much, much more than that!!! Soli Deo Gloria!
Disunity?
IMO, much (though not all) of the "problem" is because of our unwillingless to leave things where God does. There is MUCH egoism and individualism that has bleed into the church - first from Rome and now from the Enlightenment. Luther said that HUMILITY is the foundation of all sound theology.... the Fathers stressed the MYSTERIES of God..... God calls on us to be "Stewards of the MYSTERIES of God." But Christians seem to often have an irresistible compulsion to mess things up. Many have an uncontrollable urge to "explain" everything, to "connect the dots" to "fill in the blanks" to make it all "make sense" according to THEIR brain. And to insist this be done by one individual - the smartest one on the planet, the wisest one on Earth, the one who is lead by God, the one who is taught by God, the one who is The Infallible Student and Follower - self. Me. A LOT of that. We think we have to supply all the "answers" even if God doesn't seem to think so. MOST of the things I disagree with among my FULL, UNseparated brothers and sisters in Christ is not because I think they are wrong but because I think they've overstepped what we can verify as true. And (to a lesser extent) because they - in egotistical individualism - have stepped outside the corporate, ecumenical, historic, biblical understanding flowing from the Bible, the Councils, the Creeds (often resurrecting long, long ago universally rejected heresies).
And so there is a sense in which all Christians - spread out over all the continents and centuries...... ONE body, ONE corpus, ONE reality - are united. And a sense in which we are not. IMO, most of the ways we are not are not so significant (but acknowledging there are few very troubling doctrinal divisions, and this is growing fast). And for understandable reasons, we often place too much emphasis on the variances and too little on the agreements.
Institutionalism:
Hurting things too is the UBER-institutionalism that the Roman Empire instilled into Christianity. And as I have learned in my very long life, institutions exist to exist.... their goal is self preservation, self promotion. Institutions (our various denominations - including the RCC and EOC - for example) often are more concerned with the preservation and promotion and power of self than any sense of truth (although institutions tend to equate the two). I'm not (at all) against institutions but the institutionalism of Rome has totally infected Christianity and become a significant part of the problem. The current movement in rebellion (non-denominationalism) is only making things worse, but I 'get it' and can't blame many for rejecting history here (although they are simply replacing large institutionalism for small institutionalism - the same mentality, the same problem).
Your thoughts?
Pax Christi
- Josiah
.
SOME THOUGHTS AROUND UNITY AND DISAGREEMENT AMONG CHRISTIANS:
Faith:
ALL Christians are of one faith. It is faith in Christ as our Savior. ALL Christians share this faith and are one in this faith. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ. And we are a part of His church by function of that same faith. IMO, one would not be a Christian without this faith in Christ - and all who have that faith in Christ are Christians and members of His one, holy, catholic church (the communion of saints). By function of this one faith which is in Christ, we ARE (fully) brothers and sisters in Christ.
Customs, Traditions, Teachings:
Of course, not all 2.2 billion Christians agree with all other 2.2 billion Christians about every viewpoint, custom, tradition, practice, policy, interpretation, application, etc. Duh. Never have. Never will. In some cases, it would be nice. In other cases, it matters not. In some cases, the diversity might even be a good thing.
Unity:
IMO, the Bible and the Creed are correct and that there IS ONE faith, ONE Lord. That there IS ONE holy catholic church. Always has been. Always will be. Man cannot - CANNOT - change that reality, no matter how much ego and pride, no matter how much they condemn and rebuke, no matter how great their propensity to excommunicate each other, no matter how they try to institutionalize Christianity, no matter how much Christians do as Christ commanded us not to do: lord it over others like the Gentiles do. They CANNOT destroy His church. Soli Deo Gloria!
Dogma:
It is likely unavoidable that Christians will ATTEMPT to wrap the things of God around their puny, fallen, limited, sinful, human brains. And IMO there is nothing wrong, per se, with that. But the 2.2 billion Christians currently on the planet (and unknown billions now in heaven) don't do this exactly the same. SOME of this difference is perhaps more language, more articulation than a genuine difference, but significant differences do occur.
Some of these views have been seen as problematic. There are no new views (nothin' new under the sun), there are no new interpretations or theological theories or opinions. ALL have been around for many, many centuries. And Christians have considered all of these. They've prayed, thought, discussed, prayed, debated, discussed, prayer for CENTURIES. Some early ones (as Christianity was forming its theology) were seen as so problematic, so divisive that Christians came together - as community - in an ECUMENICAL manner to address them. This happened in Seven Ecumenical Councils over 500 years (roughly 300 - 800 AD) identifying and rebuking several views that now are historically, ecumenically proclaimed "heresies." While this ecumenical declaration after centuries of prayer, thought, discussion and debate DID "settle" the issue for most, it did not for all - and these heresies often survived (although as tiny, tiny minorities - excommunicated minorites). And because (sadly!!!!) a LOT of Protestant and cult clergy and leaders have very little education in the history of all this, in doctrine - several are "reinventing" these heresies anew. Regurgitating them, as my Greek Orthodox friend puts it. But for the most part, these "heresies" (I use that word in the historic sense, not as personal opinion) have been put behind us - although there is a GREAT need for laity (and too many clergy) to be educated concerning them.
BUT..... the level of unity among the great majority of Christians is nothing less than AMAZING! Soli Deo Gloria! Physics prof of mine said long ago: "It all makes sense until you get to the edges, then it all gets crazy." LOL. It seems true in MANY things! But, in Christianity, I think we quickly discover that perhaps 90-95% of Christians agree on perhaps 90-95% of teachings. The fact that over 90% agree to the Nicene Creed is HUGE!!!! And we agree on much, much more than that!!! Soli Deo Gloria!
Disunity?
IMO, much (though not all) of the "problem" is because of our unwillingless to leave things where God does. There is MUCH egoism and individualism that has bleed into the church - first from Rome and now from the Enlightenment. Luther said that HUMILITY is the foundation of all sound theology.... the Fathers stressed the MYSTERIES of God..... God calls on us to be "Stewards of the MYSTERIES of God." But Christians seem to often have an irresistible compulsion to mess things up. Many have an uncontrollable urge to "explain" everything, to "connect the dots" to "fill in the blanks" to make it all "make sense" according to THEIR brain. And to insist this be done by one individual - the smartest one on the planet, the wisest one on Earth, the one who is lead by God, the one who is taught by God, the one who is The Infallible Student and Follower - self. Me. A LOT of that. We think we have to supply all the "answers" even if God doesn't seem to think so. MOST of the things I disagree with among my FULL, UNseparated brothers and sisters in Christ is not because I think they are wrong but because I think they've overstepped what we can verify as true. And (to a lesser extent) because they - in egotistical individualism - have stepped outside the corporate, ecumenical, historic, biblical understanding flowing from the Bible, the Councils, the Creeds (often resurrecting long, long ago universally rejected heresies).
And so there is a sense in which all Christians - spread out over all the continents and centuries...... ONE body, ONE corpus, ONE reality - are united. And a sense in which we are not. IMO, most of the ways we are not are not so significant (but acknowledging there are few very troubling doctrinal divisions, and this is growing fast). And for understandable reasons, we often place too much emphasis on the variances and too little on the agreements.
Institutionalism:
Hurting things too is the UBER-institutionalism that the Roman Empire instilled into Christianity. And as I have learned in my very long life, institutions exist to exist.... their goal is self preservation, self promotion. Institutions (our various denominations - including the RCC and EOC - for example) often are more concerned with the preservation and promotion and power of self than any sense of truth (although institutions tend to equate the two). I'm not (at all) against institutions but the institutionalism of Rome has totally infected Christianity and become a significant part of the problem. The current movement in rebellion (non-denominationalism) is only making things worse, but I 'get it' and can't blame many for rejecting history here (although they are simply replacing large institutionalism for small institutionalism - the same mentality, the same problem).
Your thoughts?
Pax Christi
- Josiah
.
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