Christians taking communion in other churches

bill1231 said:

How am I supposed to take it when the church says they are the only church not in error and all others are outside, when they refuse a Christ given ordinance to christians? Of course I take it that way and so do others

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No. When you make yourself the GUEST of another church (NOT the Church of Bill), you should respect that church and it's views and it's stewardship of the mysteries EXACTLY as you'd desire of GUESTS who come to your church. It's called courtesy. It's called respect.




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Lämmchen said:

If I'm a guest at another church, I don't do as I please because I think that I'm entitled to it and I think that even though Bill's answer to my question earlier was No, that it's actually a yes. He thinks it's his right to receive so that is the same as entitled. The Pastors at the churches are there to be mindful of their sheep and yet as a guest, are you his sheep amongst that flock and what they believe? The Pastor feels that to give you the body and blood of Jesus would be wrong since you don't believe in the real presence. You disagree with his thinking of course, but he's doing what he feels right in the eyes of God.

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I think it's courtesy.... respect. Just as Bill thinks everyone must be respectful of HIS sense of what should be done, well I think we ALL must be respectful of what others sense should be done. When I'm not in The Church of Josiah - I must not ask that everyone respect ME while I don't respect them.

I think PART of the problem here is that FEW churches (Lutheran included) are really, really CLEAR to persons of other denominations what our views and polity is on this point. And guests RARELY make an effort to find out. So there's lots of (understandable) ignorance. The result is that guests can be blindsided. And yeah, that CAN feel hurtful or embarrassing or just surprising. People TEND to think (however absurdly) that everyone and everything agrees with THEM on all these issues.

I've found it's SIMPLE (given enough time). If you don't KNOW what that denomination's Eucharistic views and polities are.... ASK. A.S.K. They SHOULD clearly tell you on their website, but yeah - they often don't. But you can ASK. Email the Pastor. Phone the pastor. ASK. And if you aren't sure if you'd be welcomed or not, ASK. Seek their counsel. Get a "please join us" or "it would be best if you received a blessing instead." And respect that. It's not the Church of Josiah, so what JOSIAH thinks for feels or wants is irrelevant, I'm a GUEST there. There's no reason to feel offended. They aren't trying to offend you, they are trying to be good stewards of the mysteries according to how they understand and practice that. YOU may not agree - okay, it's not your church. (See my above illustrations to guests smoking in my house, or telling a kid to leave my medications alone). They are NOT trying to harm you, they are trying to KEEP you from harm - according to THEIR understanding. They don't get off telling you no, they feel COMPELLED for YOUR GOOD to say that. Again, you may not agree but it's not your church. And no one is FORCING you to be a guest there.


Now.... what is or is not good stewardship here is DIFFICULT, in my view. PERSONALLY, I think the RCC and LCMS and WELS are a bit too limiting here, but I RESPECT that and I'm not offended and I honor it. PERSONALLY, I think Bills' "if they CLAIM they are Christian, then it's fine" is too open, but I can RESPECT that and not be offended. But both Bill AND the RCC are BOTH saying it's appropriate and Christian sometimes to say "NO." We're agreeing on principle, we're perhaps less clear on where that "NO" line gets drawn. I'd draw it very differently than Bill does, probably not as "tight" as some LCMS churches do. But I think we could all make it much easier if we ASKED and RESPECTED, rather than thinking all MUST agree with ME and I should feel offended if they don't; than thinking I'VE got some divine right to receive from OTHER denominations what I demand. We would not treat our heathen neighor so disrespectfully, and we certainly shouldn't threat our brothers and sisters in Christ so disrespectfully.



My half cent on this admittedly difficult policy issue.....


Sorry


- Josiah

This is addressed to those who think that he Catholic Church is in deep and grave error. Why would you attend mass and want to partake of communion in a mass?

This is addressed to everybody. I only rarely attend worship meetings outside of the mass and when I do I do not take/receive the bread & wine (or grape juice) even in meetings where it is made explicit by those presiding over the meeting that they are inviting all Christians present to partake. I do not partake for several reasons not least of which is that in the worship meetings that I have attended the teaching of the group/church/denomination who sponsor the meeting is not consistent with my beliefs about the holy Eucharist (nor consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church).

Coffee

Interesting true account: Some time ago, I attended a funeral at a Catholic Church. The lady was the grandmother of a good friend of mine, a person he was close to, so I attended to support my friend. I've been to several Catholic funerals - and this was very typical. It was a Mass (with an incredible cantor, btw - INCREDIBLE voice). Perhaps 50 or so were in attendance, small so it was in the school chapel. Very few (I'm not sure any) were Catholic. The priest (a young, gracious man) was very conscience of this - and so spent some time before the service began explaining the service. Did a very nice job of that. He mentioned that the Eucharist was going to be offered. And he specifically STATED that "normally, Catholics participated." Yup. BUT he went on to specifically state that in such situations, "the Church welcomes all Christians" (he MAY have said all Baptized Christians - I'm not sure). I was shocked. But he made quite a point of it - and then went on to tell the group how this is done in the Catholic Church. I was listening.... in shock. He said NOTHING about receiving a blessing. I looked at the acolyte wondering if he was thinking what I was....

Now, I have spoken briefly to him prior to the service, because I got there way too early and was talking a bit with the Cantor when the priest came to coordinate things with him. He greeted me, I mentioned that I had been Catholic and was now Lutheran, and we had a little nice chat. Nice guy.

Well, time for the reception of the Eucharist. ALL came forward. Including my friend who ONCE went to an Assembly of God church but I don't think had been to church since he was a child. Several others. I went too - but I was the only one who didn't do as he instructed, I kept my head down and hands crossed across my chest, seeking a blessing. He did so, looking at me a bit weird.

I said nothing afterword (NOT MY PLACE). But I DID ask a Catholic priest at a website I was active at at the time ( obviously NOT revealing the priests' name - NOT MY PLACE). He was not shocked that this happened, but stressed to me that he did wrong.

No point there. And I KNOW there are LCMS pastors who do what probably isn't according to the book, too.

But in any case, I did what I had been taught non-Catholics should do - IN SPITE OF what this pastor instructed us to do (or maybe permitted us to do - don't recall the EXACT wording; I was in shock). After all, I was not mandated to receive the Eucharist. And as I told the pastor, I'm not Catholic anymore. Now.... I wonder about the wisdom of their having the Eucharist at this service when he KNEW few if any Catholics would be there - but again, none of my business. He could have just communion the acolyte (who seemed to be a kid from their school, obviously old enough) and that was it. But again, I'm not Catholic so none of that is any of my business. I did what I thought was right.


I've given my view on this already.



A blessed Lenten season to you and yours...


- Josiah




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Josiah said:

Coffee

Interesting true account: Some time ago, I attended a funeral at a Catholic Church. The lady was the grandmother of a good friend of mine, a person he was close to, so I attended to support my friend. I've been to several Catholic funerals - and this was very typical. It was a Mass (with an incredible cantor, btw - INCREDIBLE voice). Perhaps 50 or so were in attendance, small so it was in the school chapel. Very few (I'm not sure any) were Catholic. The priest (a young, gracious man) was very conscience of this - and so spent some time before the service began explaining the service. Did a very nice job of that. He mentioned that the Eucharist was going to be offered. And he specifically STATED that "normally, Catholics participated." Yup. BUT he went on to specifically state that in such situations, "the Church welcomes all Christians" (he MAY have said all Baptized Christians - I'm not sure). I was shocked. But he made quite a point of it - and then went on to tell the group how this is done in the Catholic Church. I was listening.... in shock.

Now, I have spoken briefly to him prior to the service, because I got there way too early and was talking a bit with the Cantor when the priest came to coordinate things with him. He greeted me, I mentioned that I had been Catholic and was now Lutheran, and we had a little nice chat. Nice guy.

Well, time for the reception of the Eucharist. ALL came forward. Including my friend who ONCE went to an Assembly of God church but I don't think had been to church since he was a child. Several others. I went too - but I was the only one who didn't do as he instructed, I kept my head down and hands crossed across my chest, seeking a blessing. He did so, looking at me a bit weird.

I said nothing afterword (NOT MY PLACE). But I DID ask a Catholic priest at a website I was active at at the time. He was not shocked that this happened, but stressed to me that he did wrong.

No point there. And I KNOW there are LCMS pastors who do what probably isn't according to the book, too.

But in any case, I did what I had been taught non-Catholics should do - IN SPITE OF what this pastor instructed us to do (or maybe permitted us to do - don't recall the EXACT wording; I was in shock). After all, I was not mandated to receive the Eucharist.


I've given my view on this already.



A blessed Lenten season to you and yours...


- Josiah

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I imagine that there are some priests who feel the way the priest you've mentioned does. It seems that some Christians want to be friendly and liked and warm and welcoming so much that they forget about important things and "open wide the doors" so to speak. I understand their motives but I do not agree with their conclusions and actions. It is wrong to encourage separated brethren and others to partake of the table of the Lord in a mass. In saying so I do not imply that separated brethren are non-christian.

MoreCoffee said:

I imagine that there are some priests who feel the way the priest you've mentioned does. It seems that some Christians want to be friendly and liked and warm and welcoming so much that they forget about important things and "open wide the doors" so to speak. I understand their motives but I do not agree with their conclusions and actions. It is wrong to encourage separated brethren and others to partake of the table of the Lord in a mass. In saying so I do not imply that separated brethren are non-christian.

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I agree.

I don't question the priests motives .... just his polity. I think he WANTED to be kind, caring, helpful (and he sure can't be blamed for that!). But again, I ain't saying "pushing the rules" doesn't happen in my denomination.... I KNOW it happens (usually again with good motives but.... ). MY point was in spite of what this pastor said.... my respect for the RCC caused me to do what I was sure is considered proper. NOT because I think I should be "passed over" but because I respect other Christians and know what it means to be a guest.

Irrelevant (and probably hijacking) but quick question: When I was a kid, nearly all the kids before First Communion came for a blessing! Lately, I've not witnessed this - hardly at all. Maybe someone brings ups a baby, but no little kids. Was my parish just unique in this way, or has this just changed? Come to think of it.... hardly anyone today comes for a blessing, they just sit in their seats. I LOVED that as a kid! And I couldn't wait to hear WHAT the priest said to me as he blessed me! It was probably the highlight of the service for me! His words often had to do with my baptism..... I grew up KNOWING my baptism was special.... cool.


Well, sorry for the diversion.



- Josiah

Josiah said:

I agree.

I don't question the priests motives .... just his polity. I think he WANTED to be kind, caring, helpful (and he sure can't be blamed for that!). But again, I ain't saying "pushing the rules" doesn't happen in my denomination.... I KNOW it happens (usually again with good motives but.... ). MY point was in spite of what this pastor said.... my respect for the RCC caused me to do what I was sure is considered proper. NOT because I think I should be "passed over" but because I respect other Christians and know what it means to be a guest.

Irrelevant (and probably hijacking) but quick question: When I was a kid, nearly all the kids before First Communion came for a blessing! Lately, I've not witnessed this - hardly at all. Maybe someone brings ups a baby, but no little kids. Was my parish just unique in this way, or has this just changed? Come to think of it.... hardly anyone today comes for a blessing, they just sit in their seats. I LOVED that as a kid! And I couldn't wait to hear WHAT the priest said to me as he blessed me! It was probably the highlight of the service for me! His words often had to do with my baptism..... I grew up KNOWING my baptism was special.... cool.


Well, sorry for the diversion.

- Josiah

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In my parish many children comes forward for a blessing with their parents behind them. I can't say if your parish was unique and I do not know how long ago it was.

I have some Charismatic/Pentecostal friends and (sadly) some ex-friends too. Among the ex-friends is a couple who asked why I did not "take the bread & wine" (it was in fact red cordial) and I answered that I was not comfortable with the idea because I am not really in full communion with the Australian Christian Church (used to be Assembly of God but in Australia the denomination renamed itself). The wife's reply was "if I went to a Catholic Church I'd take communion". I didn't argue the point mainly because I knew that she and her husband would not go to a mass and so the reply was hypothetical. This couple were long time friends who pretty well shunned me as soon as they knew I was confirmed in the Catholic Church. I haven't see them for quite a long time now. ...

MoreCoffee said:

In my parish many children comes forward for a blessing with their parents behind them.

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GREAT! It's a custom in my Lutheran church, and when I see it each week - I often think of how much I LOVED that as a kid... Glad to know it's not a forgotten custom in Catholicism.

I have some Charismatic/Pentecostal friends and (sadly) some ex-friends too. Among the ex-friends is a couple who asked why I did not "take the bread & wine" (it was in fact red cordial) and I answered that I was not comfortable with the idea because I am not really in full communion with the Australian Christian Church (used to be Assembly of God but in Australia the denomination renamed itself). The wife's reply was "if I went to a Catholic Church I'd take communion". I didn't argue the point mainly because I knew that she and her husband would almost never go to a mass and so the reply was hypothetical. This couple were long time friends who pretty well shunned me as soon as they knew I was confirmed in the Catholic Church. I haven't see them for quite a long time now. ...

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Sad.... unnecesary.... understandable. In Heaven, things will be different.

Josiah said:

GREAT! It's a custom in my Lutheran church, and when I see it each week - I often think of how much I LOVED that as a kid... Glad to know it's not a forgotten custom in Catholicism.

Sad.... unnecesary.... understandable. In Heaven, things will be different.

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It was sad, now I think about it only occasionally, and with the 'wisdom of hindsight' I do not think the friendship was well founded.

Josiah said:

Tango,

I'm not sure we disagree (much, lol)... and George please correct me if I'm wrong here... but I THINK this thread is not what we should do concerning guests in OUR church, but rather what WE should do when we are a guest in another church - perhaps one we've never been to before, perhaps one of a different denomination with different beliefs and practices.

I could be wrong, of course. It's happened before. Once. Just can't remember what that was about.



BLESSINGS!


- Josiah

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Sure, but I think the two are related. How we treat guests in our church and how we are treated as guests in another church would hopefully be the same.

I fully appreciate the comment someone made further up (I think it was Brighten but could be wrong) about not taking communion in an unworthy manner. But as an adult that's for me to decide because nobody else knows how I stand with God. if I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior and wish to follow his call to remember him, why should a minister of his church tell me that I'm not welcome because I didn't jump through some denomination-specific hoop to prove myself?

Using the analogy of a pill bottle from further up, if I have someone watching my house while I'm away and tell him not to drink what's in the bottles under the sink, if they then decide to drink from the bottles under the sink the consequences are on them. I warned them not to do it, they disregarded my warning, so it's on them. It's not like we're talking about children who don't know any better.

MoreCoffee said:

This is addressed to those who think that he Catholic Church is in deep and grave error. Why would you attend mass and want to partake of communion in a mass?

This is addressed to everybody. I only rarely attend worship meetings outside of the mass and when I do I do not take/receive the bread & wine (or grape juice) even in meetings where it is made explicit by those presiding over the meeting that they are inviting all Christians present to partake. I do not partake for several reasons not least of which is that in the worship meetings that I have attended the teaching of the group/church/denomination who sponsor the meeting is not consistent with my beliefs about the holy Eucharist (nor consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church).

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Not going to comment on the Catholic church in particular but in general if I believed a church was in grave error I wouldn't want to go there at all so the issue of taking communion becomes irrelevant.

tango said:

Not going to comment on the Catholic church in particular but in general if I believed a church was in grave error I wouldn't want to go there at all so the issue of taking communion becomes irrelevant.

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That's what I asked, why attend, why attend and also partake? It seems a very strange way to express one's convictions.

I've visited other churches for the purposes of weddings where there is communion and confirmations, first communions for relatives, special guest pastors I want to hear and so on and so forth and there is usually opportunity for communion and it is something I think twice about and long and hard if i want to join.