How is Jesus the first born of the dead?

whenpigsfly said:

When the Bible says that Lazarus was raised from the dead by Jesus?

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may we establish why it is you ask ?

but the answer is very simple

lazarus was raised back into this life but when he grew old he died ..

the lord jesus never died ,he was raised unto eternal life

whenpigsfly said:

I am pretty sure that the Bible says Jesus died on the cross, so then how could you say he never died.

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..and the bible states he was then raised from the dead on the third day (but you knew that )
lazarus was raised from the dead (not the first ) but later he grew old and died a natural death .
the lord jesus died o the cross and was raised again unto eternal life and did not die again -he is thus the first "born of the dead " he lives forever more .

Looks like whenpigsfly is really good at catching peoples' errors hehe Nice backtrack though.

The original post is in reference to Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

The rest of the verses in that portion read as follows
19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Those passages show that Jesus has conquered death for good, not just temporary death, but for all time. Believers look to our own resurrection because He promises that we will be with Him and not die.

TurtleHare said:

Looks like whenpigsfly is really good at catching peoples' errors hehe Nice backtrack though.

The original post is in reference to Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

The rest of the verses in that portion read as follows
19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Those passages show that Jesus has conquered death for good, not just temporary death, but for all time. Believers look to our own resurrection because He promises that we will be with Him and not die.

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There was no error .. the lord Jesus did not end his existence in death ... he died on the cross ,lay in the ground for three days and three night and then rose again from the dead .and did not die .

winnipeg knew full well what i meant but he flies an atheist flag and as such ,his motive is clear .

whenpigsfly said:

When the Bible says that Lazarus was raised from the dead by Jesus?

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Good question. Even in Matthew Chapter 10:8 Messiah instructs the disciples to heal the sick, *raise the dead* etc.

Literally speaking, Messiah cannot be the first *raised* from the dead if He is still alive while raising Lazarus and even giving instructions to the disciples to do likewise!

If the qualifier is ETERNAL life, as opposed to NATURAL LIFE - how does this apply then considering Moses and Elijah - the former who died and the latter taken up in a chariot according to Kings - who are talking to Messiah according to Matthew 17:3 ? Was Moses temporarily raised from the dead, just to die again and be raised again??

Stravinsk said:

Good question. Even in Matthew Chapter 10:8 Messiah instructs the disciples to heal the sick, *raise the dead* etc.

Literally speaking, Messiah cannot be the first *raised* from the dead if He is still alive while raising Lazarus and even giving instructions to the disciples to do likewise!

If the qualifier is ETERNAL life, as opposed to NATURAL LIFE - how does this apply then considering Moses and Elijah - the former who died and the latter taken up in a chariot according to Kings - who are talking to Messiah according to Matthew 17:3 ? Was Moses temporarily raised from the dead, just to die again and be raised again??

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again - first "born "of the dead .. first to be clothed with the new celestial body .. even Abraham has not yet received this promise ,nor Moses nor Elijah ..

interesting that you raise the same unbelieving question and in essence agree with it as an atheist -you really need to repent of unbelief .you wont be saved until you do -that's the truth of the mater .

Alithis said:

again - first "born "of the dead .. first to be clothed with the new celestial body .. even Abraham has not yet received this promise ,nor Moses nor Elijah ..

interesting that you raise the same unbelieving question and in essence agree with it as an atheist -you really need to repent of unbelief .you wont be saved until you do -that's the truth of the mater .

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Interesting that you often dodge questions, use insinuation, blanket labels and guilt by association to make accusations and point fingers. I could really give 2 figs whether or not YOU believe I am saved or not. You put yourself in the position of God when you make such judgements, and from what I do believe of what is written, God is counting each time you do.

Btw, still waiting for you to answer the questions raised in my other thread, which you said you'd get to but never did. Good day, Alithis.

to be saved ..one must BELIEVE and then repent... your every post is based on what you claim is an error or not true in the scripture .. so your are an unbeliever ..its not my judgment -it is your own declaration

Alithis said:

to be saved ..one must BELIEVE and then repent... your every post is based on what you claim is an error or not true in the scripture .. so your are an unbeliever ..its not my judgment -it is your own declaration

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Believe what, exactly?

Where did Messiah endorse the whole NT canon as we know it that you hold as your measuring stick to point fingers at others?

Nowhere. Not according to the 12 disciples, he didn't. Sorry, you cannot find one place in the words of Messiah where He endorses such cannon and confirms it in the flesh. You take it on faith, (and the words of Paul, which you also take on faith) faith that the Roman Catholic Church got it right, which is sort of ironic, because your faith icon is a Protestant one.

As for error, well - spirit filled believer, you have yet to answer my questions in the other thread to my satisfaction - and I don't think you did a great job answering the question in *this* thread either. Just because you replied, doesn't mean "that's it". But for some reason, I think you think that it is. Whenever someone disagrees with you or sees a problem reconciling two different verses or passages, you effectively say "you are an unbeliever", "you need to be saved", or whatever else you think is a proper dig (in this thread it's "you are agreeing with an atheist") - dude, such arguments are spurious and only serve to convince the already convinced.

As for making a judgement - yes, you are. Like I said, I don't give 2 figs if someone thinks I am "saved" or not. To me, that judgement is best left up to God. Humans taking that role (as Saul/Paul does, wholeheartedly) are putting themselves in God's place and exercising a role they are wholly unfit for. As Messiah says, by the measure used, the measure will be applied to those who use it.

see.. your more busy with finding error every time then you are in believing ..

whenpigsfly said:

Please, like you haven't done that in that other thread.

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yes indeed .. i find error with that which is NOT in scripture nor supported by scripture ,nor in agreement with scripture .

but scripture itself i find no error with -i believe it . and becaseu i believe the truth of it ,the lies outside of it become very clear .

This is one of those hebrew mindset understandings. We know that there have been people been brought back to life. Even Moses who is living forever more in Heaven just as Elijah and Enoch who never seen death. So where is the pre-eminence that declare Yeshua the first born. That comes from the Feast of First Fruits.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Yeshua raised from the dead on the Feast of First Fruits, also known as Wave Sheaf. And that is where He gets His Pre-eminence just like He is the Lamb of God, the Passover Lamb during Passover. He fulfills the Laws of the Feasts. He has fulfilled the Spring feasts with His first coming and He will fulfill the Fall feasts with His second coming. ...."shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ".

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.