What's the deal with Paul?

Stravinsk said:

If a hallmark of the devil was divisions, and schisms, then you have a problem with Yeshua, again:

Whole chapter of Matthew 10, with emphasis on verse 34 and beyond.

I'd be careful, if I were you. I'm sure I wouldn't want to stand before my creator and have to explain why I called him the devil simply because I associated it with divisions in people because of differing beliefs.

Edit: To say nothing of the fact that Yeshua said the path was narrow and only a few find it.

Damascus Road=very wide. Wide road. Desert Road.

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The path to life, living the life of a righteous person in Christ is a narrow road. It is not talking about salvation there. The anti-Paul stance is definitely a devilish distortion, meant to work on the hearts and minds of those who have experienced a lack of good doctrinal teaching in the first place.

Is there an absence of good doctrine in any of you? Be alert. False doctrine, not of Christ, is as sweet as molasses to a hungry heart.

Paul was filled with the Spirit of Christ. Who else is more qualified to speak of Him? To those who reject what Jesus teaches through Paul, their worship of Christ is of another Jesus, and their teaching is of an evil spirit. It is darkness, no life.


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Full O Beans said:

The path to life, living the life of a righteous person in Christ is a narrow road. It is not talking about salvation there. the anti-Paul stance is definitely a devilish distortion, meant to work on the hearts and minds of those who have experienced a lack of good doctrinal teaching in the first place.

Is there an absence of good doctrine in any of you? Be alert. False doctrine, not of Christ, is as sweet as molasses to a hungry heart.

Paul was filled with the Spirit of Christ. Who else is more qualified to speak of Him? To those who reject what Jesus teaches through Him, their worship of Christ is of another Jesus, and their teaching is of an evil spirit. It is darkness, no life.

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A) I see, so the "road to destruction" is not the opposite of salvation?

B) I get my beliefs on this matter directly from the words of Yeshua, as recorded by His trustworthy witnesses, as well as some of the Prophets of old. If you say they have an evil spirit, I would reconsider, because this is a very serious sin, and it is not forgiveable.

Stravinsk said:

A) I see, so the "road to destruction" is not the opposite of salvation?

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It's the road to spiritual shipwreck---trouble.

B) I get my beliefs on this matter directly from the words of Yeshua, as recorded by His trustworthy witnesses, as well as some of the Prophets of old. If you say they have an evil spirit, I would reconsider, because this is a very serious sin, and it is not forgiveable.

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Only a false Christ will deter someone from His speaking through Paul, who knew Jesus well, and was filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes, those who reject most of the New Testament because someone has told them that Paul is evil, or a liar, or false in any way---is deceived by a false spirit.

There's just no beating around the bush on this one.


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Full O Beans said:

Only a false Christ will deter someone from His speaking through Paul, who knew Jesus well, and was filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes, those who reject most of the New Testament because someone has told them that Paul is evil, or a liar, or false in any way---is deceived by a false spirit.

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It's a matter of evidence, and I have left links in this thread for those who are seriously interested.

Although I won't be holding my breath for any serious point by point refutation of them. I expect most people will just ignore them. But for the few who are interested, the bulk of the information is there.

I really don't think I can add to this discussion any more than to say that for those who are curious or interested, the links are in this thread.

Stravinsk said:

It's a matter of evidence, and I have left links in this thread for those who are seriously interested.

Although I won't be holding my breath for any serious point by point refutation of them. I expect most people will just ignore them. But for the few who are interested, the bulk of the information is there.

I really don't think I can add to this discussion any more than to say that for those who are curious or interested, the links are in this thread.

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Oh, I've seen the links. They are just immature tripe based on a very poor understanding of scripture---and of course, of Jesus. Those who reject Paul also reject the Book of Acts, where Jesus sent His Spirit into the world, and therefore also miss the fact that we as believers are called to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, to live and move in His wisdom and in His empowerment, and in His gifting. Paul denouncers do not experience the Holy Spirit, reject Him, and therefore cannot receive from Him---and it is Holy Spirit who teaches us and leads us into all truth. So...you miss the boat entirely.


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Full O Beans said:

Oh, I've seen the links. They are just immature tripe based on a very poor understanding of scripture---and of course, of Jesus. Those who reject Paul also reject the Book of Acts, where Jesus sent His Spirit into the world, and therefore also miss the fact that we as believers are called to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, to live and move in His wisdom and in His empowerment, and in His gifting. Paul denouncers do not experience the Holy Spirit, reject Him, and therefore cannot receive from Him---and it is Holy Spirit who teaches us and leads us into all truth. So...you miss the boat entirely.


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I do not reject Messiah, but yes, I do reject Saul/Paul's version, and much of his <--- (that's little h, ) teachings as in error.

Btw, Yeshua gave the Holy Spirit to the real disciples in John 20:22. Saul/Paul wasn't around. Guess who missed the boat.

Stravinsk said:

I do not reject Messiah, but yes, I do reject Saul/Paul's version, and much of his <--- (that's little h, ) teachings as in error.

Btw, Yeshua gave the Holy Spirit to the real disciples in John 20:22. Saul/Paul wasn't around. Guess who missed the boat.

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If one rejects the bible, then one rejects God. Rejecting His word as inspired through the people He has chosen to speak through is one thing, but to promote this rejection and to teach others to do the same is blatant error.

Holy Spirit has come to fill us all with His power and His gifting. It wasn't just for the twelve. 120 people were filled and converted 3000 people that first day. From that time to this, millions and millions are being filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit according to the promise of Jesus.

Full O Beans said:

Holy Spirit has come to fill us all with His power and His gifting. It wasn't just for the twelve. 120 people were filled and converted 3000 people that first day. From that time to this, millions and millions are being filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit according to the promise of Jesus.

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Guess they had to wait to get it again at Pentecost, right? Luke is lying. The 11 received it on the day of Resurrection, as John records.

Acts has Messiah telling the disciples to wait till Pentecost to get the Holy Spirit (which you just indicated you believe and all who don't "miss the boat"), whereas John records Messiah gave it on the day of Resurrection.

Obviously you reject John's testimony and hold to Luke's - which means you deny part of the Bible, and therefore stand accused of all you have accused me of.

Stravinsk said:

Guess they had to wait to get it again at Pentecost, right? Luke is lying. The 11 received it on the day of Resurrection, as John records.

Acts has Messiah telling the disciples to wait till Pentecost to get the Holy Spirit (which you just indicated you believe and all who don't "miss the boat"), whereas John records Messiah gave it on the day of Resurrection.

Obviously you reject John's testimony and hold to Luke's - which means you deny part of the Bible, and therefore stand accused of all you have accused me of.

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LOL! Now Luke is a liar? Hahaha!

I have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit just like the disciples. It is a promise to all who follow Christ.

I believe the word. I know the word and I teach the word. You cannot possibly do any of that.

Full O Beans said:

LOL! Now Luke is a liar? Hahaha!

I have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit just like the disciples. It is a promise to all who follow Christ.

I believe the word. I know the word and I teach the word. You cannot possibly do any of that.

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Of course Luke is a liar. John's testimony is true, and Luke has Jesus telling the disciples after 40+ days that they must wait a few days longer to get the Holy Spirit. If I were a disciple...I'd be wondering why I had to wait to get what was already given to me over a month ago - and with the same purpose (baptizing, Great Commission). Btw, Matthew also records Messiah's instructions on the day of the Resurrection. And in a different place - Galilee.

Yes, no Holy Spirit given at Pentecost. Was given over a month before with the instructions to go and preach and baptize. No story to back up the silly "gift of tongues" that Pentecostals are so proud of and makes that whole aspect of Christianity look ridiculous. Sorry. John and Matthew are in a agreement and Luke is the odd man out.

Your claims about what you think you received are just that to me, claims. You don't believe the whole bible as you say. You believe parts of it, just like me - except we believe the opposite parts, it seems.

Those who sit in judgment of men of God, anointed and used by God to further His Kingdom...are actually servants of the one who lies. It is a shame and very sad to actually witness it.

How extremely twisted to have been influenced to the point of calling Luke a liar and being completely unbelieving of Jesus. That is not Christian faith speaking. It is an antichrist spirit.

Christians believe the entire word of God----all 66 God-inspired books.