The age old question Once saved always saved or not?

dogs4thewin said:

The titled is the question/debate.

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I reject OSAS. Here's my view on 'ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED'


Gospel:


Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."



Law:

John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.

Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."


I accept all the above. Just as God put it.

As so often in theology, we find there are "two sides of the coin." To ME, the approach is NOT to take all the Scriptures, subject them to our limited, fallable, sinful, human LOGIC and force them to "fit" and "make sense" to US. To ME, the approach is not to subject one "set" to the "other" - making whatever one we like the dominate one and explain away the other cuz we want to. To ME, the approach is to accept both "sets" of scriptures at their face value and allow them to stand in all their truth and power just as God inspired them.

The approach, then, is in how to APPLY them rather than in how to force them to fit together according to our fallible, limited logic. Not in accepting one "set" and explaining away the other in the light of it. The issue is more one of APPLICATION.




MY view...

bill1231 said:

Hebrews chapter six talks about those who have tasted the good gift and trampled it under foot can no more be restored as they trample the blood of Jesusunder foot once again.

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So you would also believe that if salvation can be lost, one cannot be saved again, correct?


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I have noticed that those who believe that they can lose their salvation are also sure that they haven't.


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Hammster said:

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(Matthew 7:15 KJV) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

(Matthew 16:6 KJV) Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

(Matthew 16:11 KJV) How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

(Matthew 16:12 KJV) Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

(Mark 8:15 KJV) And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

(Mark 12:38 KJV) And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

(Luke 12:1 KJV) In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

(Luke 12:15 KJV) And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

(Luke 20:46 KJV) Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

(Acts 13:40 KJV) Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;


Regardless of what is written on a photograph of John Macarthur in the above quote it is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ warned and cautioned the faithful about wickedness, false doctrine, error, and bad examples. His words ought to be a warning to all who presume their own safety from such things and ought to be a warning against teaching that asserts that one can live a life of hypocrisy, wickedness, unbelief, or any other wicked thing without any risk of condemnation.

dogs4thewin said:

The title is the question/debate.

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Q: The age old question Once saved always saved or not?
A: In order to lose salvation one must first have it and nobody typing in this forum can be absolutely sure of their own salvation until they face God's judgement and God pronounces them saved.

MoreCoffee said:

(Matthew 7:15 KJV) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

(Matthew 16:6 KJV) Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

(Matthew 16:11 KJV) How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

(Matthew 16:12 KJV) Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

(Mark 8:15 KJV) And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

(Mark 12:38 KJV) And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

(Luke 12:1 KJV) In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

(Luke 12:15 KJV) And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

(Luke 20:46 KJV) Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

(Acts 13:40 KJV) Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;


Regardless of what is written on a photograph of John Macarthur in the above quote it is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ warned and cautioned the faithful about wickedness, false doctrine, error, and bad examples. His words ought to be a warning to all who presume their own safety from such things and ought to be a warning against teaching that asserts that one can live a life of hypocrisy, wickedness, unbelief, or any other wicked thing without any risk of condemnation.

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Wow. I never said anything of the sort.


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MoreCoffee said:

Q: The age old question Once saved always saved or not?
A: In order to lose salvation one must first have it and nobody typing in this forum can be absolutely sure of their own salvation until they face God's judgement and God pronounces them saved.

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I am absolutely sure. I'm sad for you if you are not.


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Hammster said:

Wow. I never said anything of the sort.


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The picture said something that needed a correction so I posted what the Lord Jesus Christ said and added a comment relevant to the photo's comment.

Hammster said:

I am absolutely sure. I'm sad for you if you are not.


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Declaring ones self absolutely sure is far from having holy scripture to back one's claim.

MoreCoffee said:

Declaring ones self absolutely sure is far from having holy scripture to back one's claim.

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True. Thankfully I have both.


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Hammster said:

True. Thankfully I have both.


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Where in holy scripture does one find that you, specifically, are saved?

MoreCoffee said:

Where in holy scripture does one find that you, specifically, are saved?

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Nowhere.


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Hammster said:

Nowhere.


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That is as I expected; no one can be absolutely sure that are among the faithful. That is why holy scripture advises that one ought to examine him/her self.

This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. I have previously said when present the second time, and though now absent I say in advance to those who have sinned in the past and to all the rest as well, that if I come again I will not spare anyone, since you are seeking for proof of the Christ who speaks in me, and who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you. For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you. Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test? But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test. Now we pray to God that you do no wrong; not that we ourselves may appear approved, but that you may do what is right, even though we may appear unapproved. For we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth. For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong; this we also pray for, that you be made complete. For this reason I am writing these things while absent, so that when present I need not use severity, in accordance with the authority which the Lord gave me for building up and not for tearing down. (2 Corinthians 13:1-10 NASB)