Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[Lamb]

I've read the answer from the LCMS. Thank you for posting it for others as well. Self-righteousness comes from the heart and judging where another's heart lies. There's a distinction that should be made here. When we see another going down a path that we ourselves have one down, and call that to the attention of the other, that is not judgment - it is calling one to repentance. Self-righteous judgment rests in the false knowing of another's fate - the suggestion made earlier about the eventual fate of the OP, of which you have no knowledge.

I've never claimed to know someone's heart here. I only go by what their confession of faith is.

To warn someone of the dangers of going to hell by rejecting the Savior and looking to self instead is not self-righteous but a duty as a believer out of love. Hell is real. I don't want anyone to go there because they trust in their own works instead of Jesus' forgiveness and resurrection.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Let us ALL embrace this opportunity to minister.... this opportunity IMO the Holy Spirit is providing.... in sharing the wonderful Gospel with these two community members.... in the glorious hope that either 1) We all learn horrible miscommunication has happened and we all can rejoice in the Gospel of Jesus as the Savior) OR 2) our friends realize the error of their teaching and embrace the truth - to the glory of God. To accomplish either, there must be love, listening and prayer (and probably a dose of patience). Says Josiah.... to himself first of all.....

Thank you for being a voice of reason. We all need it frequently

 

[FredVB]

We are not saved in Christ from being obedient, humanity is all fallen and lost from disobedience in rebellion to God. So with being saved in Christ we should be brought to obedience, being delivered from living disobediently.

Is blood all already removed from meat you have?

 

[Lamb]

We are not saved in Christ from being obedient, humanity is all fallen and lost from disobedience in rebellion to God. So with being saved in Christ we should be brought to obedience, being delivered from living disobediently.

Is blood all already removed from meat you have?

Our obedience is not the condition that could be satisfied which is why it's Christ's obedience that we trust in. Only HE could be perfectly obedient. That's why only HE could die on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Our righteousness comes from Him, not from within us.

 

[mailmandan]

Our obedience is not the condition that could be satisfied which is why it's Christ's obedience that we trust in. Only HE could be perfectly obedient. That's why only HE could die on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Our righteousness comes from Him, not from within us.

Well said. We could never be obedient enough to merit eternal life. Our imperfect obedience is insufficient to save and our righteousness comes from Christ.

Romans 5:19 - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Josiah]

Our obedience is not the condition that could be satisfied which is why it's Christ's obedience that we trust in. Only HE could be perfectly obedient. That's why only HE could die on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Our righteousness comes from Him, not from within us.

We ARE saved by obedience, Just not our own. Thus, we are not the Savior (someone ELSE is). Ain't that complicated.



.

 

[pinacled]

John 14
“If you love me, you will keep my commands; 16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. 17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you. 18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. 19 In just a little while, the world will no longer see me; but you will see me. Because I live, you too will live. 20 When that day comes, you will know that I am united with my Father, and you with me, and I with you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him.”]

Romans 13
Don’t owe anyone anything — except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah. 9 For the commandments, “Don’t commit adultery,” “Don’t murder,” “Don’t steal,” “Don’t covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.]

Blessed be The Holy One

 

[Lamb]

John 14
“If you love me, you will keep my commands; 16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. 17 The world cannot receive him, because it neither sees nor knows him. You know him, because he is staying with you and will be united with you. 18 I will not leave you orphans — I am coming to you. 19 In just a little while, the world will no longer see me; but you will see me. Because I live, you too will live. 20 When that day comes, you will know that I am united with my Father, and you with me, and I with you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him.”]

Romans 13
Don’t owe anyone anything — except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah. 9 For the commandments, “Don’t commit adultery,” “Don’t murder,” “Don’t steal,” “Don’t covet,”a]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: normal; position: relative; vertical-align: text-top; top: auto; display: inline;">[a] and any others are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”b]" style="font-size: 0.625em; line-height: normal; position: relative; vertical-align: text-top; top: auto; display: inline;"> 10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.]

Blessed be The Holy One

We love God and obey the commandments not for salvation but because of the salvation already won for us at the cross. Plus, our neighbor needs our good works and for us to obey the commandments. What a great way to show love to both God and neighbor by obeying the commandments...it just doesn't earn us something that was already earned by Jesus.

 

[pinacled]

We love God and obey the commandments not for salvation but because of the salvation already won for us at the cross. Plus, our neighbor needs our good works and for us to obey the commandments. What a great way to show love to both God and neighbor by obeying the commandments...it just doesn't earn us something that was already earned by Jesus.

Loving obedience to the truthfull instruction of Torah has rewards to those whom build on the True foundation.

 

[pinacled]

We love God and obey the commandments not for salvation but because of the salvation already won for us at the cross. Plus, our neighbor needs our good works and for us to obey the commandments. What a great way to show love to both God and neighbor by obeying the commandments...it just doesn't earn us something that was already earned by Jesus.

2 Corinthians 3
Yes, till today, whenever Moshe is read, a veil lies over their heart. 16 “But,” says the Torah, “whenever someone turns to Adonai, the veil is taken away.”17 Now, “Adonai” in this text means the Spirit. And where the Spirit of Adonai is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by Adonai the Spirit.


Malachi 3
“Remember the Torah of Moshe my servant,
which I enjoined on him at Horev,
laws and rulings for all Isra’el.
23 (4:5) Look, I will send to you
Eliyahu the prophet
before the coming of the great
and terrible Day of Adonai.
24 (4:6) He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children
and the hearts of the children to their fathers;
otherwise I will come and strike the land
with complete destruction.”




Blessed be The Holy One

 

[pinacled]

Many people know about God, but less actually are converted and follow God. As Christ did at Gethsemane we must set aside all and follow Gods will. Jesus came across someone who asked this same question:
Matthew 19:16-17
"16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.'

This young ruler obviously lived “a good life.” He’d convinced himself that he had “made it” in both before others and in his spiritual life. Yet, for all that, he sensed something was missing.

Was Jesus telling the rich young ruler to do something meritorious when He told him to keep the commandments? Obviously not, for salvation is "not of works, lest any man should boast." But was Jesus telling this man plainly what the condition of salvation was? If we will enter into eternal life, what is necessary?

What was Christ saying to the rich young ruler. Was obedience a condition or a requirement that we must meet before God can save us? If we look, Christ wanted more than obedience, Christ was showing that true obedience includes our outward deeds, but it is not just our outward deeds. True obedience is both the outward deed and the inner motive that prompts the deed.

We see Christ get to this with the rich young ruler:
Matthew 19:20-22
"20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

In order to be saved a person must be converted, and conversion is what makes true obedience possible. Unconverted people cannot truly obey God, they can "talk" about God, but not fully "walk" with Him. The condition or the basis for our salvation is faith. The result of our salvation is obedience. Unsaved people can’t obey. Saved people will obey.

[ "The condition or the basis for our salvation is faith. The result of our salvation is obedience. Unsaved people can’t obey. Saved people will obey."]

28 Bible verses about Righteous By Faith

A topical Bible which shows the most relevant Bible verse for each topic

bible.knowing-jesus.com

Amen, Excellent statement.

 

[pinacled]

2 Corinthians 3
Yes, till today, whenever Moshe is read, a veil lies over their heart. 16 “But,” says the Torah, “whenever someone turns to Adonai, the veil is taken away.”17 Now, “Adonai” in this text means the Spirit. And where the Spirit of Adonai is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by Adonai the Spirit.


Malachi 3
“Remember the Torah of Moshe my servant,
which I enjoined on him at Horev,
laws and rulings for all Isra’el.
23 (4:5) Look, I will send to you
Eliyahu the prophet
before the coming of the great
and terrible Day of Adonai.
24 (4:6) He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children
and the hearts of the children to their fathers;
otherwise I will come and strike the land
with complete destruction.”




Blessed be The Holy One

Teshuva and “Returning to the LORD” Are They One and the Same? - TheTorah.com

Are the rabbinic concept of teshuva, commonly translated as “repentance,” and the biblical phrase “return to the LORD” really equivalent? I would like to suggest that some important differences between the two have been overlooked. | Dr. David Lambert

www.thetorah.com

Torah and Teshuvah - Jewish Theological Seminary

The beautiful and famous words of this week's parashah have always touched my heart. This year, I read the following passage with new lenses, as I immerse myself in the month of Elul and the spiritual preparations for teshuvah. The Torah teaches: "Surely, this Instruction (Ha-Mitzvah Ha-Zot)...

www.jtsa.edu

 

[Lamb]

Loving obedience to the truthfull instruction of Torah has rewards to those whom build on the True foundation.

The rewards we receive in the afterlife is not salvation itself but something different that God has planned. Separate things.

 

[pinacled]

The rewards we receive in the afterlife is not salvation itself but something different that God has planned. Separate things.

The op ask," is obedience a condition of salvation"?
To which I respond with a yes.
Not a condition for salvation.

How do you respond?

 

[Stephen]

Unsaved people can’t obey. Saved people will obey.

Both statements are false.

 

[Stephen]

"is obedience a condition of salvation?"

John 3:36 says yes:
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him." (RSV)

 

[Lamb]

From my post #2
Obedience was a condition...and it was met by the Messiah who lived the perfectly obedient life none of us ever could and went to the cross willingly as payment for the debt of our sins, Him being the perfect lamb for the sacrifice that was needed. As believers we are declared NOT GUILTY of our sins which means because of Christ our obedience that was required has been met through Him. In our baptisms we are clothed in Him and His righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

The act of obedience that saves is choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16) In Romans 10:16, we read - "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Here we can see that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in John 3:36 in the RSV and NASB translations, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is based on the merits of our obedience/works which “follows” believing in the Son (salvation by works) but obey by choosing to believe in the Son.

If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son."

The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely."

So in John 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son. This act of disobedience keeps unbelievers in their lost condition. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Stephen]

aepitheo

Strong's Concordance
Definition: to disobey

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
to disbelieve, disobey

There is an example of scripture showing disbeying is disbelief.
In Num 20 the Israelites in the desert want water to drink.
God command Moses to speak to the rock to bring forth water.(vs 8)
But Moses did not do what he was told; he struck the rock with his staff. (vs 11)
God said to him “Because you did not believe in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.” (vs 12)

To disobey God's commands is to disbelieve.

 

[Stephen]

From my post #2
Obedience was a condition...and it was met by the Messiah who lived the perfectly obedient life none of us ever could and went to the cross willingly as payment for the debt of our sins, Him being the perfect lamb for the sacrifice that was needed. As believers we are declared NOT GUILTY of our sins which means because of Christ our obedience that was required has been met through Him. In our baptisms we are clothed in Him and His righteousness.

That may be your opinion but I disagree.