Stopping to think ....

[MoreCoffee]

I believe in God and I accept the holy scriptures as revelation from God and I do that because, and this is the truth, I want to and not because there's some overwhelming proof that what's in the bible is true I also have my Church's testimony about the holy scriptures and that persuades too. But why oh why do we believe the bible any more than we believe the Quran or the Mishna?

If you tell me that you believe the bible because the Holy Spirit told you to I am going to think you're a bit crazy

 

[psalms 91]

lol yes I believe it totally.

 

[MoreCoffee]

lol yes I believe it totally.

​Okay, but why? And you didn't answer the question about the Quran and the Mishna

 

[psalms 91]

I( believe because I have been led in the Word by the Holy Spirit and it is spirit that makes the Word alive. Those other ones are just man inspired not God inspired

 

[Tigger]

When I started seeking for truth I encountered many beliefs that just fell flat both spiritually and intellectually. When I started reading the bible it spoke to my soul. It's like an inner still voice.

 

[onlyme]

When I started seeking for truth I encountered many beliefs that just fell flat both spiritually and intellectually. When I started reading the bible it spoke to my soul. It's like an inner still voice.

Exactly! It's, as Psalm 119.105 puts is, 'a lamp to my feet and a light to my path'.

The Lord Jesus said in John 16.17, 'Sanctify them through Thy truth; Thy word is truth'. Blessings.

 

[tango]

I( believe because I have been led in the Word by the Holy Spirit and it is spirit that makes the Word alive. Those other ones are just man inspired not God inspired

How would you counter a Muslim who uses much the same form of words to claim that the Qu'ran is alive and the Bible is corrupted?

 

[MoreCoffee]

If one's beliefs ultimately rest on some internal experience that one associates with the Holy Spirit then isn't one's faith subjective and hence not really transmissible or defensible except by making an appeal to one's feelings as the foundation for faith?

 

[seekingsolace]

Difficult question. In the past reading the Bible always left more questions than answers. I could not get my head around this Jesus character, and how He could be man and God at the same time. Paul seemed like a bigot and dubious character opposed to what I understood from other chapters. The Old Testament was hard reading for my eyes, shocking at parts.

But then virtually overnight this changed. Reading the Bible made sense; Paul made sense, the Messiah made sense, and questioning the Bible seemed a silly notion.

I know personal experiences are subjective, but I do feel God has to open your mind for you to truly understand. It's not so much feelings, but illumination - not visibly, rather a gentle internal light. Maybe this is your internal lamp. Once kindled, it may flicker, yet gradually grows to encompass you.

 

[psalms 91]

Difficult question. In the past reading the Bible always left more questions than answers. I could not get my head around this Jesus character, and how He could be man and God at the same time. Paul seemed like a bigot and dubious character opposed to what I understood from other chapters. The Old Testament was hard reading for my eyes, shocking at parts.

But then virtually overnight this changed. Reading the Bible made sense; Paul made sense, the Messiah made sense, and questioning the Bible seemed a silly notion.

I know personal experiences are subjective, but I do feel God has to open your mind for you to truly understand. It's not so much feelings, but illumination - not visibly, rather a gentle internal light. Maybe this is your internal lamp. Once kindled, it may flicker, yet gradually grows to encompass you.

Exactlt! If it isnt opened up then you will never be saved. It is not us but the Hokly Sopirit that will open the doors for people to recieve the words

 

[tango]

Exactlt! If it isnt opened up then you will never be saved. It is not us but the Hokly Sopirit that will open the doors for people to recieve the words

So how do you explain to someone else what it is about Christians that is different, in a way that they can receive it for themselves?

It's actually quite a challenging question, if we can't define what it is in terms that a non-believer can understand how is our evangelism going to offer them any more than a vague promise of "something better"?

 

[psalms 91]

Use the Romans road to salvation, point out that we were all sinners and in need of saving and explain why for you. Explain how you feel with Jesus and what He has done for you personally and I think people will relate because theycan see that you are being honest and coming from your own experiences.

 

[tango]

Use the Romans road to salvation, point out that we were all sinners and in need of saving and explain why for you. Explain how you feel with Jesus and what He has done for you personally and I think people will relate because theycan see that you are being honest and coming from your own experiences.

Which is great in theory, but the whole "we are all sinners" inevitably leads into rabbit trails about whether some sins are worse than others and whether God really considers fiddling your expense claims to cover dinner for your partner to be on a par with the rape and murder of children.

The personal testimony makes the most sense. Personally I don't like formulaic approaches, simply because the people on the receiving end of it will tend to feel like they are on some kind of production line, or they are being bounced along a sales pitch before suddenly finding themselves saying "I'll take two" when what they mean is "I'm really not interested".

 

[psalms 91]

So how do you explain to someone else what it is about Christians that is different, in a way that they can receive it for themselves?

It's actually quite a challenging question, if we can't define what it is in terms that a non-believer can understand how is our evangelism going to offer them any more than a vague promise of "something better"?

If they cant see it in us then our evangelism is lost

 

[psalms 91]

Which is great in theory, but the whole "we are all sinners" inevitably leads into rabbit trails about whether some sins are worse than others and whether God really considers fiddling your expense claims to cover dinner for your partner to be on a par with the rape and murder of children.

The personal testimony makes the most sense. Personally I don't like formulaic approaches, simply because the people on the receiving end of it will tend to feel like they are on some kind of production line, or they are being bounced along a sales pitch before suddenly finding themselves saying "I'll take two" when what they mean is "I'm really not interested".

Not if you connect with them on a personal level, that is what is lacking a lot of the time

 

[Hammster]

So how do you explain to someone else what it is about Christians that is different, in a way that they can receive it for themselves?

It's actually quite a challenging question, if we can't define what it is in terms that a non-believer can understand how is our evangelism going to offer them any more than a vague promise of "something better"?

I don't think it's that challenging. But then again, I am a presuppositionalist. So I believe that the natural man suppresses the truth. The only way to convince him is by the working of the Holy Spirit. Romans 1:16 says it's the gospel that saves. There's nothing about a convincing argument. The man who wrote it was a religious terrorist who was saved by the power of the gospel.

 

[Lamb]

I don't think it's that challenging. But then again, I am a presuppositionalist. So I believe that the natural man suppresses the truth. The only way to convince him is by the working of the Holy Spirit. Romans 1:16 says it's the gospel that saves. There's nothing about a convincing argument. The man who wrote it was a religious terrorist who was saved by the power of the gospel.

This is correct. It is the Holy Spirit using the Word that changes man. We plant seeds but we cannot do the Holy Spirit's job.

I am not one for testimonies and never have been. God doesn't always change people the way the testimony goes and that can bring others down thinking God doesn't care about them.

 

[psalms 91]

This is correct. It is the Holy Spirit using the Word that changes man. We plant seeds but we cannot do the Holy Spirit's job.

I am not one for testimonies and never have been. God doesn't always change people the way the testimony goes and that can bring others down thinking God doesn't care about them.

However a testimony should give people hope and build faith

 

[MoreCoffee]

However a testimony should give people hope and build faith

Truth has a great deal of weight while building up hope and faith is weighty and valuable only when it is founded upon truth. Hope that is false and faith that is misplaced ought not be built up.

 

[psalms 91]

Truth has a great deal of weight while building up hope and faith is weighty and valuable only when it is founded upon truth. Hope that is false and faith that is misplaced ought not be built up.

A testimony should be truth of what that person has experienced or would you shut up only those with whose experiences you might find in opposition to your own beliefs