God still chooses.

[Albion]

And still it is not with God wanting any to perish. But Saul was not chosen for having new life, he was chosen for being king.

Of course God would prefer that none of his human creatures would perish! That doesn't mean that none of them will.

 

[MennoSota]

Of course God would prefer that none of his human creatures would perish! That doesn't mean that none of them will.

Not one of God's elect will perish. God wills that none will perish. We can take that promise to the bank.
No need for me to restate the obvious about 2 Peter 3:9. I just accept that people will butcher it.

 

[Arsenios]

Not one of God's elect will perish. God wills that none will perish. We can take that promise to the bank.
No need for me to restate the obvious about 2 Peter 3:9. I just accept that people will butcher it.

9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise,
as some understand slowness.
Instead he is patient with you,
not wanting anyone to perish,
but everyone to come to repentance.

Are you arguing that the opposite of death is repentance from sin?

Who could argue against that?


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise,
as some understand slowness.
Instead he is patient with you,
not wanting anyone to perish,
but everyone to come to repentance.

Are you arguing that the opposite of death is repentance from sin?

Who could argue against that?


Arsenios

You realize that Peter is speaking to the elect. Because they are the elect, God will bring His elect to repentance.
Arsenios, you keep putting the cart before the horse and thus negating grace. It amazes me how wrong the EOC is on this issue. I didn't realize how legalistic and empty of grace your church is. You have enlightened me.

 

[Albion]

Not one of God's elect will perish.

Not addressing the real issue.

Of course God would prefer that none of his human creatures would perish! That doesn't mean that none of them will.

 

[MennoSota]

Not addressing the real issue.

It does.
When you say that God would "prefer", you present God as being incapacitated to accomplish his preference. If God willed all men to not perish, then all men would not perish.
God "prefers" to will some to eternal life in heaven by grace and others to eternal life in hell by justly condemning sin. This is His Sovereign preference.

 

[RichWh1]

You realize that Peter is speaking to the elect. Because they are the elect, God will bring His elect to repentance.
Arsenios, you keep putting the cart before the horse and thus negating grace. It amazes me how wrong the EOC is on this issue. I didn't realize how legalistic and empty of grace your church is. You have enlightened me.

Peter was writing to the Jews about the Gentiles who would be saved by coming to repentance.
Peter wrote to the Jews not about them.

Paul, apostle to the Gentiles, said something similar to what Peter did 1Tim 2:4

[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 2:4&version=NASB
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[MennoSota]

Peter was writing to the Jews about the Gentiles who would be saved by coming to repentance.
Peter wrote to the Jews not about them.

Paul, apostle to the Gentiles, said something similar to what Peter did 1Tim 2:4

[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 2:4&version=NASB
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have addressed this before, showing what Paul is addressing with Timothy (not universalism).
Peter is addressing the elect.
2 Peter 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

There is literally nothing stated regarding the need to repent first. In fact, it is the opposite. The elect obtained faith by "the righteousness" of God the Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[RichWh1]

If as you say God does not give all a chance to come to repentance, He is unjust!
John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes might be saved "
Was Jesus wrong?
Is God unjust?


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[MennoSota]

If as you say God does not give all a chance to come to repentance, He is unjust!
John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes might be saved "
Was Jesus wrong?
Is God unjust?


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The Bible says that no on seeks God, not even one. A just God would leave humans to die in their sins and spend eternity in hell. This is what we deserve.
Since we are, by nature, in rebellion against God, we will NEVER independently repent. Do rebels ever independently repent during their rebellion? No. They fight to the death. That's what we humans do against God.
Rich, you harbour the imagination that there is something virtuous and good in humans that will innately make them repentant. That thought is unbiblical and false. All our righteousness is as filthy rags.
God is not unjust. God either meets out His wrath on sinners or His wrath falls on His Son at the cross. For those whom God chooses to extend grace, that wrath is substituted upon Christ. For the rest, His wrath falls upon their sins. The curse separates them from those whom God has ordained to be saved. (Matthew 25)
Those in the world, whom God loves, is the elect who believe and do not perish. The others will not believe. They are bound for destruction.
God is not unjust to show mercy and Grace to whomever He wills. He is the Sovereign King. He is perfect and just. Simply because you can't stand the fact that God determines your fate does not make God unjust. It just makes you me entirely dependent upon God's mercy and Grace. Please don't imagine you independently repented. That's just a fantasy coming from your fleshly pride. No. God chose to make you alive with Christ, and when He did...you were aware of your utter rebellion and repented. God's grace and salvation came first. Your response was to fall to your knees in repentance. Please don't lift yourself up and belittle God by turning that process around.

 

[RichWh1]

So who is salvation for? Jews only or Jews and Gentiles?
Paul was apostle to Gentiles
Peter was apostle to Jews

What does the word 'all' mean in your theology?



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[YourTruthGod]

My church is going through 1 Samuel. In chapter 10 we see God choosing Saul as King. There is no call for repentance before God chooses him. There is only God choosing and God giving Saul a new heart.
I am struck by how consistent God is from Genesis to Revelation in how He calls out people according to His Sovereign will.
1 Samuel 10:1,6,9

Samuel had the Holy Spirit taken from him because he did not obey God, and he did not repent of it.

 

[MennoSota]

Samuel had the Holy Spirit taken from him because he did not obey God, and he did not repent of it.

It does not change the reality that there is no requirement that says "you must repent before God can deem you worthy to be saved."

 

[YourTruthGod]

Some scriptures about whom God chooses...


John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Acts 10:35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

 

[YourTruthGod]

It does not change the reality that there is no requirement that says "you must repent before God can deem you worthy to be saved."

Are not these scriptures about repenting of sins to be saved:

Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands. They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft.

Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.

Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

Acts 8:32 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

 

[MennoSota]

Are not these scriptures about repenting of sins to be saved:

Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands. They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft.

Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.

Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

Acts 8:32 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

Those who are called and do repent are the elect. Everyone of your verses relates to those who are already elect.
Rebels will not seek God. They will not repent. They cannot repent for they are dead in their trespasses and sins.
God must choose to make them alive with Christ and by grace give them the gift of faith.
Those whom God redeems will repent. Those who remain in their sins will never repent.
I suggest you look at all your quoted verses and go back to read the entire chapter (minimum) so you don't end up quoting with no context.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Those who are called and do repent are the elect. Everyone of your verses relates to those who are already elect.
Rebels will not seek God. They will not repent. They cannot repent for they are dead in their trespasses and sins.
God must choose to make them alive with Christ and by grace give them the gift of faith.
Those whom God redeems will repent. Those who remain in their sins will never repent.
I suggest you look at all your quoted verses and go back to read the entire chapter (minimum) so you don't end up quoting with no context.

In the other post I made are these scriptures that show who God chooses to save:


John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Acts 10:35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

 

[MennoSota]

In the other post I made are these scriptures that show who God chooses to save:


John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Acts 10:35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

Expand and read the entire passage/chapter to see the context. Jesus is quite clear in John 6, John 10, and John 17.
Read Acts 13, all of Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, as well as 1 Peter.
From Genesis to Revelation we see God choosing whom He wills to graciously use and grant faith.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Expand and read the entire passage/chapter to see the context. Jesus is quite clear in John 6, John 10, and John 17.
Read Acts 13, all of Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, as well as 1 Peter.
From Genesis to Revelation we see God choosing whom He wills to graciously use and grant faith.

God gives a measure of faith to all, and it can grow or be taken according to what we do with it.

 

[MennoSota]

God gives a measure of faith to all, and it can grow or be taken according to what we do with it.

That's not biblical. Not all humans have faith. You are stating your own opinion with no scripture.