Jesus Christ, died for all

[MoreCoffee]

Ignorant people who are spiritually dead may call the Bible doublespeak. Anyone who reads the roman catechism knows it is a purposeful obfuscation of scripture designed to dupe the masses into obedience to the roman politic rather than scripture. That is precisely why it wouldn't allow the Bible to be printed.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is designed and intended to present the teaching of Christ and of the his Church as succinctly and clearly as possible in a book of instruction for the pastors of the faithful. It presents this teaching in the following format.

IV. Structure of this Catechism
13 The plan of this catechism is inspired by the great tradition of catechisms which build catechesis on four pillars: the baptismal profession of faith (the Creed), the sacraments of faith, the life of faith (the Commandments), and the prayer of the believer (the Lord's Prayer).
Part One: the Profession of Faith
14 Those who belong to Christ through faith and Baptism must confess their baptismal faith before men. First therefore the Catechism expounds revelation, by which God addresses and gives himself to man, and the faith by which man responds to God (Section One). the profession of faith summarizes the gifts that God gives man: as the Author of all that is good; as Redeemer; and as Sanctifier. It develops these in the three chapters on our baptismal faith in the one God: the almighty Father, the Creator; his Son Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour; and the Holy Spirit, the Sanctifier, in the Holy Church (Section Two).
Part Two: the Sacraments of Faith
15 The second part of the Catechism explains how God's salvation, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church's liturgy (Section One), especially in the seven sacraments (Section Two).
Part Three: the Life of Faith
16 The third part of the Catechism deals with the final end of man created in the image of God: beatitude, and the ways of reaching it - through right conduct freely chosen, with the help of God's law and grace (Section One), and through conduct that fulfils the twofold commandment of charity, specified in God's Ten Commandments (Section Two).
Part Four: Prayer in the Life of Faith
17 The last part of the Catechism deals with the meaning and importance of prayer in the life of believers (Section One). It concludes with a brief commentary on the seven petitions of the Lord's Prayer (Section Two), for indeed we find in these the sum of all the good things which we must hope for, and which our heavenly Father wants to grant us.​

 

[Albion]

Since this term seems to come up repeately, I think we could stand to have a firm, reliable, official definition of the word Hyper-Calvinist.

 

[Andrew]

Since this term seems to come up repeately, I think we could stand to have a firm, reliable, official definition of the word Hyper-Calvinist.

Im guessing it's all five points, any thing less is apparently regular Calvinism?

 

[Arsenios]

Satan and his demons were originally created in the image of angels of light, too.

Were they?
They were not created in some angel image...
They were created angels...

Image means nothing.

The Holy Image of God...
in which Man was Created BY God...
means everything...

It means that our NATURAL condition is union with God in Whose Image we are created...
It means that our ABNORMAL condition is departure from this Holy Image...
It means that we can conform to our Original Image...
It means that we DO conform to this image in varying degrees...
It means that we are FALLEN FROM this Holy Image...
To be COMPLETELY FALLEN from it is to not exist...
But Adam ate of the Tree of Knowledge of BOTH Good AND evil...
So we as fallen from the Likeness of God know BOTH Good and evil...
Calvinists falsely proclaim fallen man to only know evil...

It is all about the heart (inner being).

It is all about Union with God in Christ...
We are Baptized INTO Christ...

Soli Deo Gloria!

One is Holy...
One is Lord...
Jesus Christ...

To the Glory of God the Father...
Amen


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Arsenios what we mean by works salvation is that instead of presenting good works to sustain salvation or prove your worthiness you should rest in Christ assured that God called you forth and has given you a new heart and that good works are the result of salvation -NOT the means to it, lest any man should boast.
Be humble my friend, God gave you a perfect heart clean and pure, you have nothing to work for, the work is finished.

The Call of God is unto repentance...
We are Called to repent by God...

Those who are repenting are being saved...
Those who are not are not...

MY work is not finished this side of the Grave...
God's Work in me is not finished yet either...

Is God's work finished in YOU??
Ad hominum, I know, I know!

But IF god's work in me is finished...
Then I need a MUCH better God!

In seeing the condition of my soul...
I need much more repentance...

How about you?



Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

The Call of God is unto repentance...
We are Called to repent by God...

Those who are repenting are being saved...
Those who are not are not...

MY work is not finished this side of the Grave...
God's Work in me is not finished yet either...

Is God's work finished in YOU??
Ad hominum, I know, I know!


Arsenios

The workmanship of God is relevant always throughout the life of the repenting sinner

 

[MennoSota]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is designed and intended to present the teaching of Christ and of the his Church as succinctly and clearly as possible in a book of instruction for the pastors of the faithful. It presents this teaching in the following format.

IV. Structure of this Catechism
13 The plan of this catechism is inspired by the great tradition of catechisms which build catechesis on four pillars: the baptismal profession of faith (the Creed), the sacraments of faith, the life of faith (the Commandments), and the prayer of the believer (the Lord's Prayer).
Part One: the Profession of Faith
14 Those who belong to Christ through faith and Baptism must confess their baptismal faith before men. First therefore the Catechism expounds revelation, by which God addresses and gives himself to man, and the faith by which man responds to God (Section One). the profession of faith summarizes the gifts that God gives man: as the Author of all that is good; as Redeemer; and as Sanctifier. It develops these in the three chapters on our baptismal faith in the one God: the almighty Father, the Creator; his Son Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour; and the Holy Spirit, the Sanctifier, in the Holy Church (Section Two).
Part Two: the Sacraments of Faith
15 The second part of the Catechism explains how God's salvation, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church's liturgy (Section One), especially in the seven sacraments (Section Two).
Part Three: the Life of Faith
16 The third part of the Catechism deals with the final end of man created in the image of God: beatitude, and the ways of reaching it - through right conduct freely chosen, with the help of God's law and grace (Section One), and through conduct that fulfils the twofold commandment of charity, specified in God's Ten Commandments (Section Two).
Part Four: Prayer in the Life of Faith
17 The last part of the Catechism deals with the meaning and importance of prayer in the life of believers (Section One). It concludes with a brief commentary on the seven petitions of the Lord's Prayer (Section Two), for indeed we find in these the sum of all the good things which we must hope for, and which our heavenly Father wants to grant us.​

It fails in design and intent. In fact, it is designed to purposely obfuscate and intends to chain people under burdens. Like the Pharisees, the Roman church points many toward hell.

 

[Arsenios]

I noticed in other post you take "it is finished" to mean "do what you want and party hardy",

Forgive me if I gave that impression - I suppose it could be one possibility...

But if "it is finished" means my heart is pure, then THAT is demonstrably not true - I need only look within...

And I venture YOU need only look within to refute that assertion...

Repentance is an ongoing state of being for the Christian in this life...

There is no repentance after we die...

But baptized into Christ's death, our new life IS repentance from evil...


Arsenios

 

[Albion]

Im guessing it's all five points, any thing less is apparently regular Calvinism?

Accoring to Calvinists and Reformed churches whose literature I have read, the term is reserved for the small fringe of their movement that believes that since God chooses his elect and nothing can change that fact, there is no point in Christians conducting any evangelistic, missionary work.

The use of the word here on CH to mean acceptance of the TULIP points is a new one on me.

 

[MennoSota]

Since this term seems to come up repeately, I think we could stand to have a firm, reliable, official definition of the word Hyper-Calvinist.

According to Josiah, it is any Reformed person who accepts the tenets presented against the Remonstrants.
It seems that Lutherans struggle to grasp atonement and the full Sovereignty of God. (Well...ELCA Lutherans tend to struggle with the deity of Christ, but that's another topic.)

 

[MoreCoffee]

It fails in design and intent. In fact, it is designed to purposely obfuscate and intends to chain people under burdens. Like the Pharisees, the Roman church points many toward hell.

Let's see how The Catechism of the Catholic Church starts. Let people decide if it is as Mennosota claims - obfuscating and burden creating.

PART ONE:

THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION ONE

"I BELIEVE" - "WE BELIEVE"

26 We begin our profession of faith by saying: "I believe" or "We believe". Before expounding the Church's faith, as confessed in the Creed, celebrated in the liturgy and lived in observance of God's commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what "to believe" means. Faith is man's response to God, who reveals himself and gives himself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Thus we shall consider first that search (Chapter One), then the divine Revelation by which God comes to meet man (Chapter Two), and finally the response of faith (Chapter Three).​

The catechism then starts with chapter one.

CHAPTER ONE

MAN'S CAPACITY FOR GOD

I. The Desire for God

27 The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:

The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator.1​

28 In many ways, throughout history down to the present day, men have given expression to their quest for God in their religious beliefs and behaviour: in their prayers, sacrifices, rituals, meditations, and so forth. These forms of religious expression, despite the ambiguities they often bring with them, are so universal that one may well call man a religious being:

From one ancestor (God) made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him - though indeed he is not far from each one of us. For "in him we live and move and have our being."2​

29 But this "intimate and vital bond of man to God" (GS 19 # 1) can be forgotten, overlooked, or even explicitly rejected by man.3 Such attitudes can have different causes: revolt against evil in the world; religious ignorance or indifference; the cares and riches of this world; the scandal of bad example on the part of believers; currents of thought hostile to religion; finally, that attitude of sinful man which makes him hide from God out of fear and flee his call.4

30 "Let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice."5 Although man can forget God or reject him, He never ceases to call every man to seek him, so as to find life and happiness. But this search for God demands of man every effort of intellect, a sound will, "an upright heart", as well as the witness of others who teach him to seek God.

You are great, O Lord, and greatly to be praised: great is your power and your wisdom is without measure. and man, so small a part of your creation, wants to praise you: this man, though clothed with mortality and bearing the evidence of sin and the proof that you withstand the proud. Despite everything, man, though but a small a part of your creation, wants to praise you. You yourself encourage him to delight in your praise, for you have made us for yourself, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.6​

1 Vatican Council II, GS 19 # 1.
2 ⇒ Acts 17:26-28.
3 GS 19 # 1.
4 Cf. GS 19-21; ⇒ Mt 13:22; ⇒ Gen 3:8-10;⇒ Jon 1:3.
5 ⇒ Ps 105:3
6 St. Augustine, Conf. I, I, I: PL 32, 659-661.​

 

[Andrew]

It fails in design and intent. In fact, it is designed to purposely obfuscate and intends to chain people under burdens. Like the Pharisees, the Roman church points many toward hell.

Except the Pharisees were against Jesus, Catholics are not against Christ by any means and are not bound to hell despite of their pile ups of tradition that others (myself included) see as a bit burdensome...

 

[Arsenios]

Arsenios... you require works to maintain/attain salvation.
You desperately want to do something to show God you are worthy of His salvation

"Ask and ye shall receive...
Seek and ye shall find...
Beckon and it shall come unto you..."

Repenting is asking God...
It establishes sincerity...
It confesses unworthiness...

I mean, "Proudly repenting" is pretty much oxymoron, don't you think?


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Im guessing it's all five points, any thing less is apparently regular Calvinism?

No.
You are not even a Calvinist if you reject one of the points. Each point is connected and shown in scripture. To chop one out is to chop out scripture. It's like cutting out vital organs from a human body and claiming the human is still alive, despite the fact that there is no pulse.
Arminians will often say they are 4 point calvinists, 3 point, 2 point, 1 point, etc. What they mean is that they cannot accept the full and total Sovereignty of God over their lives. They hold on to their self as an idol that cannot be destroyed.

 

[Arsenios]

...do you realize that the elect are entirely known by God?
Your statement of an "unknowable few" is just stupid talk that only you speak.

Well, they are NOT known by YOU and ME, yes?

Hence UNKNOWABLE...

And not a vast majority exactly, yes?

But a FEW...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Except the Pharisees were against Jesus, Catholics are not against Christ by any means and are not bound to hell despite of their pile ups of tradition that others (myself included) see as a bit burdensome...

The rulers in the Catholic Church are anti-Christ. The teaching of this present pope is anathema.

 

[MennoSota]

Well, they are NOT known by YOU and ME, yes?

Hence UNKNOWABLE...

And not a vast majority exactly, yes?

But a FEW...


Arsenios

Our finite status is irrelevant.

 

[Arsenios]

Jesus laid down his life 'solely and exclusively' for the sheep.

Sheep follow...

So follow Christ...

Be a sheep...

Your choice and decision...

God desires ALL to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth...

Christ IS the Truth...

This does not exactly mean who are and are not the sheep, yes?


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The workmanship of God is relevant always throughout the life of the repenting sinner

So God's work of Salvation is not finished in us...

Thank-you...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Our finite status is irrelevant.

NOT exactly all that irrelevant to US, yes?


Arsenios