work out your own salvation Php 2:12

[NewCreation435]

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Philippians 2:12 KJV

For those of you who don't think that we have a free will or that our efforts mean nothing in terms of salvation could you please explain what Paul meant here when he said to "work out your own salvation"?

 

[MennoSota]

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Philippians 2:12 KJV

For those of you who don't think that we have a free will or that our efforts mean nothing in terms of salvation could you please explain what Paul meant here when he said to "work out your own salvation"?

John Piper does a phenomenal exegesis of Philippians 2:12-13. I cannot say it better than he does so please watch this 11 minute teaching on the passage in question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=-MxSBaw7L8M

 

[Lamb]

It's important to realize that the verse is NOT saying "work for". It's saying "work out" which means to remain faithful to God and trust that He saves us. Scriptures warns us carefully that we can fall away so it also encourages us to remain faithful working out that salvation that God promises us. Can we remain faithful on our own? Absolutely not. That's why we have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us.

 

[NewCreation435]

It's important to realize that the verse is NOT saying "work for". It's saying "work out" which means to remain faithful to God and trust that He saves us. Scriptures warns us carefully that we can fall away so it also encourages us to remain faithful working out that salvation that God promises us. Can we remain faithful on our own? Absolutely not. That's why we have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us.

If we can fall away then doesn't that imply that it isn't God's Sovereignty alone that saves us. Because if I didn't earn it to begin with then I can't lose it

 

[Andrew]

If we can fall away then doesn't that imply that it isn't God's Sovereignty alone that saves us. Because if I didn't earn it to begin with then I can't lose it

I over read that part. Hebrews tells us It's impossible to tastes the good fruit and to turn away.

 

[Lamb]

If we can fall away then doesn't that imply that it isn't God's Sovereignty alone that saves us. Because if I didn't earn it to begin with then I can't lose it

God absolutely saves us 100% without anything from us. Scripture tells us that man can fall away Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:12; Galatians 5:4; 1 Timothy 1:19-20; 2 Peter 3:17

 

[Andrew]

God absolutely saves us 100% without anything from us. Scripture tells us that man can fall away Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:12; Galatians 5:4; 1 Timothy 1:19-20; 2 Peter 3:17

In Luke it is talking about those who's foundations are not set on the rock, thus are in spoils and have not received faith (no foundation=not faith) and they give into temptation

 

[NewCreation435]

God absolutely saves us 100% without anything from us. Scripture tells us that man can fall away Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:12; Galatians 5:4; 1 Timothy 1:19-20; 2 Peter 3:17

Can you explain that inconsistency? If I didn't earn it than how can my works cause me to lose what I didn't gain by works

 

[Lamb]

Can you explain that inconsistency? If I didn't earn it than how can my works cause me to lose what I didn't gain by works

If you sin and don't turn back to God, you could fall from faith. That's the difference. Repentance is turning away from sin and toward God. When someone repeatedly sins and doesn't repent, he isn't turning back to God and could lose faith all together.

 

[atpollard]

In Luke it is talking about those who's foundations are not set on the rock, thus are in spoils and have not received faith (no foundation=not faith) and they give into temptation

Oooh ... exegesis of scripture. How refreshing. :thumbsup:

Can you explain that inconsistency? If I didn't earn it than how can my works cause me to lose what I didn't gain by works

Good question. I wonder if you will get an answer? [EDIT: Looks like you did, while I was typing MY response.]

For me, the answer is obvious:

[Eph 1:13-14 NIV] 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

The HOLY SPIRIT is our GUARANTEE of the inheritance.


[Jhn 17:12 NIV] 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
[Jhn 18:9 NIV] 9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me."

Jesus protects and does not loose any that the Father gives Him, including us.


[Jhn 10:25-30 NIV] 25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

We are sheltered between the hand of God the father and the hand of God the Son. It is not a position that one can fall out from.


[Jhn 6:44 NIV] 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Jesus is not a liar and will make good on his promise to raise those that the father has drawn to Him on the last day ... not just some of those that the Father has drawn.


Hence, I do not believe in "Once Saved Always Saved" (Implying one can be saved and yield no fruit of a changed life), but I do believe in "Perseverance of the Saints" which means ... "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion" [Phil 1:6 NIV] because "we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." [Eph 2:10 NIV].

Soli Deo gloria.

 

[MennoSota]

Can you explain that inconsistency? If I didn't earn it than how can my works cause me to lose what I didn't gain by works

I have posted an 11 minute video that explains it. Please watch and learn.

 

[Andrew]

If you sin and don't turn back to God, you could fall from faith. That's the difference. Repentance is turning away from sin and toward God. When someone repeatedly sins and doesn't repent, he isn't turning back to God and could lose faith all together.

If faith is given by God is it full blown or does he sometimes give a little faith to some people? I believe faith is full blown absolute faith and that if God can't turn you away from sin or keep your eyes fixed on him -then you surely can't do it yourself and thus you don't have faith and never had it.
God keeps you and doesn't fail at giving you full faith. We may fail him but he perfects us and never gives up on his people.

 

[atpollard]

If you sin and don't turn back to God, you could fall from faith. That's the difference. Repentance is turning away from sin and toward God. When someone repeatedly sins and doesn't repent, he isn't turning back to God and could lose faith all together.

I am not looking to argue, just making sure I understand your position ... GOD gives faith, and people have the power to reject the gift (give it back, as it were) through deliberate, unrepented sin.
Is that a fair understanding of your position?

 

[Andrew]

Oooh ... exegesis of scripture. How refreshing. [emoji106]


Good question. I wonder if you will get an answer? [EDIT: Looks like you did, while I was typing MY response.]

For me, the answer is obvious:

[Eph 1:13-14 NIV] 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

The HOLY SPIRIT is our GUARANTEE of the inheritance.


[Jhn 17:12 NIV] 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
[Jhn 18:9 NIV] 9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me."

Jesus protects and does not loose any that the Father gives Him, including us.


[Jhn 10:25-30 NIV] 25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

We are sheltered between the hand of God the father and the hand of God the Son. It is not a position that one can fall out from.


[Jhn 6:44 NIV] 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Jesus is not a liar and will make good on his promise to raise those that the father has drawn to Him on the last day ... not just some of those that the Father has drawn.


Hence, I do not believe in "Once Saved Always Saved" (Implying one can be saved and yield no fruit of a changed life), but I do believe in "Perseverance of the Saints" which means ... "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion" [Phil 1:6 NIV] because "we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." [Eph 2:10 NIV].

Soli Deo gloria.

OSAS means the same as the P in TULIP imo, but you are referring to OSAS as a loose word people throw around correct? I can understand that if it's what you are implying...
We may know by their fruits, but just because someone can claim OSAS while displaying unfruitfulness it doesn't mean that we know for certain that God is not working in them and we just caught them at the wrong time, Perseverance of the Saints is imo OSAS when it applies to the Elect/believer. Do you agree?

 

[MennoSota]

OSAS means the same as the P in TULIP imo, but you are referring to OSAS as a loose word people throw around correct? I can understand that if it's what you are implying...
We may know by their fruits, but just because someone can claim OSAS while displaying unfruitfulness it doesn't mean that we know for certain that God is not working in them and we just caught them at the wrong time, Perseverance of the Saints is imo OSAS when it applies to the Elect/believer. Do you agree?

OSAS is not necessarily synonymous with the perseverance of the saints. OSAS assumes you have used your free-will to choose God and thus God has sealed you. I once had a pastor tell me that all a person had to do was say the sinners prayer and they are eternally saved. Life changes did not need to take place. It was sad if it didn't, but an unchanged person, after praying the prayer was now sealed. He was always doing an alter call and keeping a tally of all who repeated the prayer because in his mind the prayer saved.
Reformed theology does not believe such a silly concept of magical incantation. We hold to God's work in choosing whom he has atoned and therefore kept by grace through faith. The mark of the elect is in the changed life brought about by the Holy Spirit in making us new creations in Christ. We trust in God and know He keeps us.
I don't see this as nitpicking, but others might.

 

[Andrew]

OSAS is not necessarily synonymous with the perseverance of the saints. OSAS assumes you have used your free-will to choose God and thus God has sealed you. I once had a pastor tell me that all a person had to do was say the sinners prayer and they are eternally saved. Life changes did not need to take place. It was sad if it didn't, but an unchanged person, after praying the prayer was now sealed. He was always doing an alter call and keeping a tally of all who repeated the prayer because in his mind the prayer saved.
Reformed theology does not believe such a silly concept of magical incantation. We hold to God's work in choosing whom he has atoned and therefore kept by grace through faith. The mark of the elect is in the changed life brought about by the Holy Spirit in making us new creations in Christ. We trust in God and know He keeps us.
I don't see this as nitpicking, but others might.

I disagree somewhat, someone who is willing to believe a prayer works or even attend a church sermon with belief in their heart are most certainly a believer, if they can declare it with their tongue and believe in their hearts that Christ is Lord we can not neglect the fact that they are being called, spontaneity is great but grace shows us that God has chosen an individual and is working in them... we should never assume otherwise IMHO. Just because we have not witnessed a transformation does not mean that they are not called by God, it doesn't mean that they are all called by God respectively... I believe the devils are those who mock and laugh at the bible their whole life through because the gospel is the truth and final authoritative scripture... It's supremely possible that God can come in at any time in a persons life, even up to the last hour of their life and redeem them as he chooses.

 

[MennoSota]

I disagree somewhat, someone who is willing to believe a prayer works or even attend a church sermon with belief in their heart are most certainly a believer, if they can declare it with their tongue and believe in their hearts that Christ is Lord we can not neglect the fact that they are being called, spontaneity is great but grace shows us that God has chosen an individual and is working in them... we should never assume otherwise IMHO. Just because we have not witnessed a transformation does not mean that they are not called by God, it doesn't mean that they are all called by God respectively... I believe the devils are those who mock and laugh at the bible their whole life through because the gospel is the truth and final authoritative scripture... It's supremely possible that God can come in at any time in a persons life, even up to the last hour of their life and redeem them as he chooses.

Satan can declare it with his tongue. A mark of a person chosen by God is a changed life, a repentance from sin. Paul tells us this in 1 Thessalonians 1.
1 Thessalonians 1:2-10
We give thanks to God always for all of you, constantlymentioning you in our prayers, remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

 

[Andrew]

Satan can declare it with his tongue. A mark of a person chosen by God is a changed life, a repentance from sin. Paul tells us this in 1 Thessalonians 1.
1 Thessalonians 1:2-10
We give thanks to God always for all of you, constantlymentioning you in our prayers, remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

That scripture does not rebuke what I stated, that we do not know and cannot see the mark of Gods working grace in his people, we are simple humans and although we may be certain that someone barring great fruit is seen to us -it does not mean that 'catching one in ones sin' is absolute evidence that they are damned because we see them sin after seeing them in church... thus we embrace Gods commandment of Loving everyone and preaching the bible, God never gave us his eyes to see any mark (especially of the beast) in anyone, we are told to steer away from marking anyone ourselves.

 

[MennoSota]

That scripture does not rebuke what I stated, that we do not know and cannot see the mark of Gods working grace in his people, we are simple humans and although we may be certain that someone barring great fruit is seen to us -it does not mean that 'catching one in ones sin' is absolute evidence that they are damned because we see them sin after seeing them in church... thus we embrace Gods commandment of Loving everyone and preaching the bible, God never gave us his eyes to see any mark (especially of the beast) in anyone, we are told to steer away from marking anyone ourselves.

Andrew, it is true that we cannot know God's will regarding His choice. But, God's chosen people are given good works to do. Ephesians 2:10 tells us we are created for good works.
If a person said a prayer, but their life and behavior doesn't change, how can the Spirit of God be working in them? God changes lives when he makes them alive in Christ. God's adopted children will not continue to live as slaves of sin.

 

[Andrew]

Andrew, it is true that we cannot know God's will regarding His choice. But, God's chosen people are given good works to do. Ephesians 2:10 tells us we are created for good works.
If a person said a prayer, but their life and behavior doesn't change, how can the Spirit of God be working in them? God changes lives when he makes them alive in Christ. God's adopted children will not continue to live as slaves of sin.

All I am saying is that it is not up to us to determine if someone has changed or not just by our "feeling" as a believer, this is what turns me off to most churches is that they poke at you and then wait for a response, if it does not sit well with them then they are quick to say "bro you got demons still, you aren't saved at all"...
I understand TULIP because it makes sense to me, it does not mean that a Catholic is not a believer, or that a Pentecostal is not a believer, it means that all believers are parts of the Body of Christ.